MFTMOM

While I also think that it is unimaginable that a family would walk out on a baby because of gender- I wonder if it isn't a sign of unresolved issues regarding infertility and adoption. Sometimes the adoption process can be very stressful and frustrating, especially when one is thinking- why do I have to justify myself as a parent when most of the rest of the world doesn't- simply because they can get pregnant. To be honest, I can remember having that thought. I can also see how that would translate into "I have the right to choose things about this child that I wouldn't be able to if I gave birth" almost as a way of making up for the fact that I can't give birth. Once again, I don't think that this is a good attitude to walk into adoption with- but I can understand where it comes from. One interesting thing that I thought of the other day when someone was asking me about adoption was this- while originally I was not sure that I should have to justify myself as being a good parent- now I often wonder if everyone shouldn't have to go through a process like we do before they have children. Not that I am a big fan on limiting civil liberties, but when I see what children go through at the hands of their parents or guardians (adoptive AND birth), I do have to wonder. Just a few thoughts. Bobbi

Tina, Thank you for sharing. I haven't read much over the holidays because we have had guests in town and so I had not read your previous posts. But I read through all of them and I just had to say thank you for speaking your mind. I am a person who usually speaks her mind, which is usually "against the flow", and therefore I usually find myself in an uncomfortable position. However, the older I get the more that I believe that this character attribute of mine is a blessing more than a flaw- as long as I am respectful in how I talk to others- which you completely were! I know that stomach renching feeling that comes along with what you did- but as another adoptive mother who loves her birthfamily very much and is so thankful to have contact THANK YOU! Bobbi

I also agree that Jesus was incredibly politically incorrect. But he also stood for the rights of those who were underpriveleged- and was constantly challenging those with more privelege about the responsibility that their position in society placed upon them. Thank you for your thoughts Lisa. It is invigorating to me when we all feel that we can share our thoughts and opinions! Bobbi

Wow Renee. How did you find her. I swear half the time I can't even find my friends on myspace! Bobbi

Elizabeth, I have to say that I agree to a point. I think the thing that resonates with me is the idea that "handouts" are not what this society needs to solve many of its societal problems with poverty, I think the problem goes deeper than that. Obviously if that was the solution, the way in which welfare was created would have solved more problems that it actually did. However, I do not believe that there is not a place for the sharing of assets either. I think that as a matter of principle, our society is very self-centered and we do little to care for those around us who are not as priveleged as we are. IF we were'nt, maybe we would make and support much different policies at the public policy level, in the workplace, and in our personal lives. I think that there are many things that would need to change for poverty to significantly change. For one, we would need to have a more equal valuing of everyone's contributions, not a limited few. For example, like you pointed out, why would Amanda want to go and get a minimum wage job when she would not be able to financially support her family with it. As a society we say that these jobs are not worth much as highlighted by how much they pay. However, where would we as a society be if no one took out the trash, cleaned the floors, cooked the food, took care of the kids (many of the jobs that garner minimum wage). Also, who is she surrounded by that has had the experience to say- here is how education would benefit you, here is how you can attain it, and here is how I am willing to help. I grew up with a strong message that education was important for everyone, but it was probably most important for women. That as a woman in our society, education may make a bigger difference in whether I would be able to support my family myself if I needed to. I wonder how my life and choices would have been different if I had been exposed to different messages. I think about a conversation that I had with a family in therapy once. There was a strong history of teen-age parenting. I remember the mother of the family telling me that she could not wait for her son to make her a grandmother. He was sixteen. It was difficult to understand, but this was all she ever knew. I am not sure that adoption is necessarily the answer to this problem. Will adoption necessarily give Amanda the hope and support that she needs to change her life? Will it make her see her options that much differently? Will it allow her to see herself as a person of value, even outside of her role as mother? Do we know enough about birthparent experiences after placement to say that it makes the overall changes that we hope it does? When I think about Amanda not asking for child support, I cringe. Then I think about her reasoning. She abstains from asking for this in the hopes that her children will have contact with their father. Now I can poke all sorts of holes in her logic, but ultimately she may be trying to make a decision for the good of her children- even though it does not appear to be the best. What other resources would assist her in this situation. What set up might help her to make a better decision? I agree that she has not even tried to get child support, but I will point something out. For many women who try very hard to get child support, the system seems more set up to help non-custodial parents avoid paying than to assist custodial parents with receiving the funds that they so desperately need. Many women do not even "go through the hassle of trying" because it really feels like more trouble than it is worth. Are they the problem or is the system the problem? I do not mean to say that I am blind to the experience of the children in this situation or that I think that she is making the best choices as a parent. But I worry about ignoring the overall system that is at play in her life and others. I think also of situations where abuse is taking place in a family. I believe very strongly that children need to be removed from a situation in which they are not safe. However, removal is not enough. How do we solve the overall problem of abuse in families in the first place. So I come back to my original point. How do we solve the problem of parents not being a position to keep the children that they desperately want. I think even if we solve that problem, there will still be those who will have the option and will take the option of adoption, but at least it will feel like more of a choice to them. Perhaps it is my training, the way that I was raised, or who knows what else, but I struggle with making the decision for someone else of how they should live their life. Last, let me make very clear that I am not attempting to be anti-adoption here. Adoption has been a wonderful and irreplacable part of my life. However, I am reticent to tell someone when they should place their child. Our birthmother experienced a lot of pressure NOT to place her child for adoption. It still bring tears to my eyes when I think about how hard that pressure may have been to deal with during an already difficult time. I also would not want to place a mother in a position in which she felt like the message (subtle or otherwise) is that she should place her child for adoption. I agree that I hope that Amanda knows her options and can make a decision based on those. But at what point are we telling others that we know better than they do, how they should live their lives? Just my thoughts. Thank you for starting such a thought provoking topic. It has given me plenty of time to procrastinate grading today! Bobbi P.S. This does not even begin to take into consideration the assumption that we often make that the children will be in a better overall situation in their adoptive family. IN the same way that we can point to situations like Amanda's where is seems fairly obvious that the children deserve something better- we can find situations like the little boy in the other thread (can't remember his name) who experienced awful treatment at the hands of his adoptive parents. It always leaves me with the question- how do we balance both sides of the coin.

I think Jada makes a very good point that I have often struggled with. And please correct me if I am wrong about what you were trying to say Jada. I think that one of my concerns with adoption overall is that it has been a system that has mainly supported families of a certain means in their desire to become parents. I don't mean rich, but I beleive that most of us would certainly say that we are comfortable. The majority of parents who adopt formally are white, married, and middle-class. I know that we can say that we were able to participate in the miracle of adoption because we had the financial support to complete the process. In fact, in many ways that adoption system in set up so that those with more money, generally have more choices in terms of type of adoption and even the "type" of child that they would like to adopt. I think that an inadvertant (or perhaps not) message that comes along with the system of adoption is that good parenting and socio-economic status are correlated. Also that the solution to poverty ridden families is adoption. One piece of support that I will offer for this is the relationship between welfare reform and adoption. I would have to look back at my notes for exact bills involved, but I believe it was our adoption tax benefits that were orignally attached to a bill limiting welfare. So, in effect one bill limited poor families access to government funds to assist in raising their children and gave more priveleged families a financial incentive to adopt. Is this really a coincidence? I have to say that when I read Jada's post, I was conflicted between feelings of agreement and for lack of a better word- defensiveness. I wholeheartedly agreed with Jada's perspective on money and adoption and parenting- and concerns about why we think that a person should place a child for adoption, as well as ideas about how these families could better be supported. What I struggled with was the comment about supporting these families financially, so that these children can grow up where they belong. My gut reaction is that my daughter belongs in my family. I begin to respond as I do anytime anyohne insinuates that in essence "blood is thicker than water." Because I truly don't believe that it always is. I push against an agenda that says that money equals the best family for a child, but I equally struggle against the concept that genetics equals the best family for a child. But I think that when I get to heart of what Jada is saying, ultimately I have to say that I agree with her. I feel convicted about what my family can do for families struggling financially that would make the difference for them in staying together. WHile I cannot legally do this for our birthfamily, they are millions of other families that I can make a difference for. And ultimately if I am honest, my main reason for adopting was because I wanted a child. I can come up with all the platitudes that I can think of, but ultimately I wanted to be a mom. The money that I spent could have helped other families, but I used it to achieve my dream of a family. Please do not mistake what I am saying. I would not want a child to be adopted by a family who was adopting to better the world, etc... I believe that every child deserves to be wanted in their own right. But I have to admit my role in the whole system, and a part of that is that above everyone else's needs and desires, I placed my desire to have a child. And to be honest, if asked to do it over again, I believe that I would do the same thing. So what can I do now. I have really struggled with what I do with this knowlege and conviction that I now have. I really believe that adopting my daughter has given me the responsibility not just toward her and her birthfamily, but to work on the system overall. The system of injustice that results in families being separated because of poverty. This is my own struggle and conviction and it definitely colors how I see and hear conversations like the one that we have been having. I think the first thing that it brings me to is the conclusion that I need to recognize my own privelege and how it has colored my view of the world. I am immensely priveleged. Even in times of past, when my family struggled financially, we never reached the level of poor that many in out of this country have lived with their entire life. I have never wondered where my next meal is coming from or whether I will have a place to live. I have no authority to say what I would do in that situation and I wonder if that also means that I should not make a judgement on what someone else should do in that situation. I guess another thing that I have struggled with in reading this conversation is the idea that Amanda should be able to see what kind of life she "could potentially have." My question to that is how should she be able to see that. If she has never experienced anything different in her life, why should she believe that things can be different? I think that this view borders dangerously with the idea "pull yourself up by your boot straps." Or the idea that America is the land of opportunity and we all have equal potential to have a piece of the pie- I believe that the demographics in this country say otherwise. If things really were equal, Amanda would have the same opportunites that I do when facing an unplanned pregnancy. However, the family that I grew up in, my education, my relationships, my earning potential all say that we do not have the same opportunities. Many would say that the opportunities that I now have are a direct relation to the choices that I have made in life versus the choices that others have made in life, however, I would add the caveat that privelege offers more choices than non-privelege. I am not sure that I have made much sense, but I think that my overall message is that I struggle with the idea that those of us who are so priveleged offer so many opinions about what others who are not as priveleged should do with their lives. As someone who struggled with infertility, there is a part of this conversation that is really scary to think about. If we as a nation had solved the problems that cause children to be in out of home care, and no children were placed out of their homes without real concrete and equal choices to the contrary, how many of us would not have children. The idea of not having children of my own in my life (not nieces and nephews to dote on) is terrifying. And I have to be honest that I have really struggled with why some people can so easily become pregnant when I disagree with the way in which they parent, while others can never become pregnant and I believe would be GREAT parents. I have even struggled with why God is blessing us with a third that we did not ask for, while many of you and my other friends are wanting desperately for ONE. But I also struggle with the idea that my wants and desires would dictate public policy and be seen as a priority over the wants and desires of others, because of my privelege. My heart is with all of us as we struggle with this issue. Thank you to everyone who has had the courage to speak up. Thank you Jada for speaking your heart. You continually challenge my thinking and I believe that you are a refining iron for me. I hope that I hear you well. Bobbi

I can only begin to imagine how difficult it is to have to make the decision to place a child once, let alone twice. But what got me thinking when I read this strand was the difference in how we think about unexpected pregnancies based on life circumstances. It is amazing to me how quick we are to judge women who have unexpected pregnancies if they are not blessed with the financial resources to support their children. However, these same adjectives are rarely applied to women who have financial resources and partners to assist them in keeping their children in their home, even when the pregnancy was not expected. I am an educated woman who has experienced a great deal of privelege in her life, and I now find myself pregnant (unexpectedly) for the second time. I have experienced a great deal of support and no one has described me as careless or judged my experience in a negative way. It makes me incredibly sad and angry to know that other women are being handled in a much different manner, simply because of the circumstances in which their unexpected news arrives. I am not sure that this is the type of message that we are discussing on this thread. But I wanted to send the message to all women who are finding themselves in a difficult place due to an unexpected pregnancy- you deserve support and respect and I hope that you know that there are places that you can turn for both of these. I'm sorry that the double standard exists. Bobbi

Congratulations and best wishes to the newest families, this is such a special time.

When I think about open adoption and why it is so important, I think about Riley on the phone with her birthmom. I think about the letters and phone conversations in which her birthmom has talked about how Riley is her beloved, and how much she is thought of EVERY SINGLE DAY. Every child should be able to rest in that knowledge. I know that we think of this as a gift, but lately I have been thinking of how this is a RIGHT. I think that it is a basic human right to know not only your history and where you came from, but to have access to the family who brought you into this world, when this option is available. It makes me so sad that this option is available for so many children, if we as parents were not so adamant about protecting our own rights, and so anxious to face our own fears. If I am honest, I still have irrational fears that crop up now and then. That voice in the back of my head that says my child is such a blessing, who would not want to have her back in their life fulltime. And being very honest with myself I know that our birthfamily would love to have her back in their midst. I know that she is missed everyday and that there are days that there is regret about the road that was taken. I feel conflicted about this knowledge. On the one hand, it makes me so sad about the suffering that it entails for our birthfamily, but on the other hand I want my daughter to know how deeply she is missed and loved. I still have to fight through those moments of fear, but hearing my daughter tell "M" that she loves her on the phone, and hearing "M" say it back, makes my own struggles worth it. The other day I received a message from "M" telling me what a blessing that we are to her, and that she is so happy with the way in which our daughter is being taken care of. Her approval means that world to me, what more could a mother want than this type of connection with her daughter's other mother. I love the scene near the end of "Stepmom", where Susan Sarandon and Julia Roberts are talking about their own fears. Julia is afraid that she will never be seen as having been enough. Susan is afraid that she will be forgotten. They decide however that the children will have room in their hearts for both. Sometimes we don't give our children enough credit. Thanks for listening (reading). Bobbi

Cathy, I am so relieved to hear that all went well sharing your news. The Kohl's reference brought a little tear to my eye. It reminded me of some of the sweet gifts that our family sent when we were waiting on Riley. It was so nice to be recognized as a parent in waiting. I hope you feel expectant and blessed during this very special time. During my study, one participant mentioned that when they told people that they were adopting, others talked a lot about how special it is to be pregnant and birth a baby. She said that she did not want to talk away from the unique and special experience that birth can be, but that she also wanted others to recognize how special and unique the process of adoption can be as well. My heart skipped in unity with her when she talked about that. I want you to know that you are surrounded by people, even those that you have not met in person, who recognize and celebrate this special time with you! Welcome to your first waiting period! Bobbi

Well that explains why we have booze at orientation weekend

Congrats to the newest parents! Enjoy this special sleep deprived time!

Lisa2, I had to say that it was funny to see you mention the "Theory of Relativity", because I jsut picked that up as my evening escape book. I have had it on my bookshelf to read forever and just started...just thought that was a funny coinkidink! Bobbi

I feel conflicted after reading this. Sometimes I wonder why we have to denigrate one group in order to support another. As an adoptive parent, I do not want my important role in my daughter's life to be denigrated simply to support the role of her biological parents, so why would I want their role denigrated to support mine. I was raised by my step-father and I do not consider him a step-father. But I do not feel a need to denigrate my relationship with my biological father in order to celebrate his role in my life. I feel free to love both for the relationships that I have been allowed to have with them, even when those relationships are very different. I hope that my daughter always feels the same freedom! Bobbi

Congratulations to the newest family! We wish you all the best.

I wholeheartedly agree. There were a lot of people in our lives who thought that we should have pursued infertility treatments longer, and many of those said some type of "I told you so" when we got pregnant later. What I have said in return is that this is how we were meant to become parents and this is the family that was meant to be. I cannot imagine my life without either of my children and I am glad that we took the path that we did. Some of my friends have taken a different path and become parents through fertility treatments, still others have decided that if they do not become pregnant that they will not parent... I think that each person has to make their own decision and that their families are just as beautiful whether they remain as two (if they want to), or grow through IVF or adoption. Bobbi

I'll admit that the one that I hated the most was,,, In God's timing. I do believe in God, but I am not sure that s/he works the way we think. There are a lot of implications to saying in God's timing, including the idea that some people were meant to parent (ie. those who can get pregnant) and some people weren't (ie. those who can't. Even if this is not what the speaker means, there is a lot of room for interpretation in what we say, especially when someone else is hurting. To be honest, I advise people not to say anything to someone who is grieving, other than "do you need someone to listen or is there anything that I can do." I think that a lot of times we say all these platitudes to others because we are uncomfortable sitting with others pain and not being able to make them feel better. I would have to respectfully disagree with you a little Claudia, I am not sure that other people need to hear our version of the truth when they are grieving. I think that usually they need some space to come to their own conclusions about what is going on and someone to listen as they talk about how difficult the experience is. I think that our opinions are best saved for a time when they are asked for specifically. Just my two cents, Bobbi

Ann, I just wanted you to know that I have been trying to get ahold of you by telephone. I will keep trying. In the meantime, you are all in our prayers. Please let us know if there is anything that you need or anything that we can do for you. Bobbi

Dear mlw, We are trying to nail down a date to do another adoption group meeting. We would love to see you there. I will post when we have final details. Bobbi

Melissa, I am so happy for you guys. I have been keeping up with your posts and it gives me a feeling of peace and contentment to hear about the support that you are receiving. I wish that all adoptive families could feel that kind of support. Bobbi

Congrats to a very special couple from Austin- who now have completed our group AND done so with two (count them two) baby boys! We are so excited for you guys and would love a picture- if you are ever able to find the time! Bobbi

Thank you all for your cotinued response and support for my questions. I thought I would catch everyone up. I have spoken with my boss, who is very supportive and I think that we have devised a plan that will work best for everyone involved. In fact, everytime I mention the lack of resources on how to handle this situation for psychotherapists- I am encouraged to publish on my experience for others to share. So I have decided that the ride still may get bumpy, but we will get through and hopefully be able to share with others in the future. Once again, thanks for all the support! Newbie 101