Lauren&Chuck

Hooray!!

As an FYI-- Messianic Judiasm isn't quite like traditional (or liberal) Judaism... because Messianic Jews (sometimes called "Jews for Jesus," one of the best known Messianic Jewish groups) believe that Jesus was the messiah, there are major differences between them and more traditional Jews (who do not believe that Jesus was the messiah). From what I understand, and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, these Jews try to practice within the faith of Jesus (ie Judaism) to better understand who he was and become closer to him. Nothing wrong with a Messianic temple... just don't expect that an Orthadox/Conservative/Reform/Reconstructionist etc temple will be the same as the Messianic one.

Hmmm, I knew Purim was coming up but totally blanked on the timing since I'm on travel. I'll be with all four of my neices and nephews tomorrow, so maybe I can convince my brothers to go to a Purim festival. I have to agree, it has always been one of my favorite holidays. And the Abrazo babes should agree... since the main thing you're supposed to do (as an adult, of course) on Purim is to get so drunk that you can't tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys!! (Now that's a holiday!!)

I'm not a scissors-and-glue type of person (even as a kid I wasn't much into arts and crafts) so I was thrilled when I heard that there were computer programs out there that could help with the profile. I got a copy of "Scrapbook MAX" for free off of the internet and played around with it for a few weeks. I found it incredibly easy to use, and ended up buying the full version after I knew I was happy with it. (The trial version stamps some text across the bottom when you go to print it out, which is clearly not going to cut it for your final profile!). One thing that Renee said at orientation was that the digital programs often look prepackaged-- not unique or original. We got around that by using a blank template instead of one of the pre-set templates that they offer. That way you can choose your own background (you can download all sorts of backgrounds for very cheap), place your pictures and text where you want it, and really make it unique. Happy to send you a copy of our original profile (though we actually are on a "pause" from the adoption process right now, so it never became an official profile). It can at least show you what is possible with the digital programs out there. PM me with your email address if you want to see it.

Love the show, and totally love the metaphor!! Nice way of looking at it. (Now I just wonder how our "game" will play out!!!)

Thanks so much for your supportive words. You have no idea how much they mean to me. Interestingly enough, a few of my employees are having trouble conceiving-- and I tell them that they've got just about the best boss for that stuff, since I'm willing to be overwhelmingly flexible.

WOW. Chuck and I sat down before we ever started trying to have kids (we both had a premonition that we'd have trouble) and said what we'd be willing to "do" to have a biological child. Funny, we're now planning on going a bit beyond that (I said ABSOLUTELY no IVF when we started... but now I'm open to at least a couple of rounds). But we've already drawn other pretty bright lines for when we'll stop. This just seems so beyond the pale... way too extreme. When we finally started telling people that we were going to adopt (we never really talked about the fertility treatments, for fear of how it would affect my business prospects... we thought people wouldn't be willing to contract with a firm where the president might "check out" because of a pregnancy) we got all sorts of people coming out of the woodwork to tell us about their fertility journeys. One in particular told us about their 7 rounds of IVF. On the 5th round, his wife had life-threatening OHSS and was in the hospital for over a week. Her doc told her ABSOLUTELY no more IVF, because she had a huge chance of getting OHSS again and she had literally come close to dying. And yet, note-- they did 7 rounds, or 2 rounds after that. They ended up with a beautiful little girl after their 7th round, but at what cost?! He told us this story to say "don't give up, keep trying, keep going no matter what." When we finished lunch with him, Chuck and I both looked at each other with wide eyes and said that we NEVER wanted to get to that point. Luckily, we know what a viable option adoption is... and really feel that we could walk away from fertility to adoption at any point that it doesn't make sense for us. And anytime there is more than a minimal risk to us or our baby, that's a point that chasing a biological child doesn't make any sense to us. But, of course, everyone has different views on this... and that's OK. But for us, even IVF without a really really solid chance of working is too much.

Lisa, check out the following site for prayers and explinations of how to say them and light the candles: http://www.torahtots.com/holidays/chanuka/brachot.htm Bottom line, start on the first night (Dec 15th this year) with the middle candle (usually)-- the one that is "different" than the rest because of its height or non-proximity to the other candles (called the shamesh). Light that with a match or lighter, and light candles from right to left. The first night, you start with one candle on the far right and the shamesh. The second night, you'll have the two right-most candles and the shamesh. And on, and on. You'll have enough candles in the box to do 2+3+4+5... for the full 8 nights. On the first night, you'll say all three prayers listed on the website above. (They also have a link to hear the blessings said, so you can hear how the "transliteration" actually sounds when someone reads it-- you don't have to sing the songs, we never do, we just say them). The last prayer on the list, called the shechechianu (you'll note that nobody spells hebrew words the same in English... which is liberating since you can spell it however it actually sounds to you!)... anyway, the shechechianu is an "all purpose" prayer that you say anytime you get to a joyous occassion (or, for that matter, any occassion) thanking god for bringing you safely to this point. By training or choice, I find myself actually saying it to myself somewhat often when things are going well, or really not so well. Same basic website has a good Chanukah story: http://www.torahtots.com/holidays/chanuka/chanstr.htm As for latkes, I have a great (and not terribly difficult) recipe, but be warned, they're MESSY. Let me know if you want it (Lisa, Heidi, or anyone else), and I'll type it out for you. It comes from Grandma Doralee Patankin's Jewish Cookbook (Mandy Patankin's mom), and the cookbook itself has all sorts of easy-to-make Jewish stuff. Being a reformed Midwesterner, this is the cookbook I love, since everything is dump-in-a-bowl and shove-in-the-oven, for the most part. As for Mazel Tov... it is a general term for congrats. (It really means "good luck" but is used in the "wow, that's great luck, congrats" way, not the "good luck with what you have coming up" way). And as for Shabbot (Shabbos, Shabbat, whatever), it is the end-of-week rest day (from Friday night to Sat afternoon). Christians celebrate the same basic holiday on Sundays. This is the day that god rested after making the world-- Christians, Jews, and Muslims just have a different interpretation of which day he started making the world, so therefore which day he rested. Some Jews keep "shomer shabbos," where they do absolutely no work throughout the 25 hours... no cooking, no turning on lights (electricity makes someone else work, so it is off limits), no driving (used to use horses, and "driving" would make them work, now it is just tradition not to drive). Most non-Orthodox Jews don't keep things that strictly, but try to make Shabbat "family day" or try to start other family traditions. (Growing up, we pretty much ignored it altogether, though Chuck and I want to start some cool traditions as a family when we have kids). I can send you some of the cool things to do for it-- especially the ceremony saying "goodbye" to Shabbat on Saturday nights (called Havdalah), which has some really incredible traditions that go along with it. Glad the movies are good. I'm sure I'll ask you about them again when we have kids old enough to watch. Lisa, you can always email me with more questions. I'd hold off on calling the temple until after Chanukkah anyway. Things are bound to be hectic and crowded. For sure try to make it for Purim. That's the best kids holiday in my book. L

Very cute!

Definitely not coincidence. I'll talk to the Rabbi on base tomorrow and see if he has any suggestions. As a TV-baby myself, I can vouch for the fact that Jews definitely let their kids watch!! I'm sure there's some good stuff out there. My friend Jayme used to teach Sunday School, so she may have suggestions as well. We have 2 Judaica stores that we go to in Boston, near where Chuck grew up, and I believe both of them have websites. Try kolbo (I know they have a website) and the Israel Bookstore (I think that's the name), both in Brookline. Kolbo usually has fancier stuff than Judaism.com but not as wide a selection. And the Israel Bookstore is, obviously, very good for books and movies. L

That has to be just about the prettiest menorah I've ever seen!! She sounded like she was having fun painting it in the background. Did you let her break out the glitter pen?! Lisa... thanks again for your huge heart. Our conversation yesterday was awesome. We'll have to make that a tradition every time I'm back in the US (which seems to be a lot lately!!)

YAY!!! What perfect timing. (Wish I could claim credit-- I just finally got around to ordering it when I had a break in my travel schedule, so it came at no particular time). So glad you got it, and that Kayleigh will enjoy it. I only wish I could be there with her to light the candles. I know I owe you the prayers and some good storytelling stuff for both Hannukah and for the tzedakah box. As soon as I get home, I'll get it from the Rabbi. I'll explain the whole kosher thing to you on a phone call at some point. Generally kosher refers to dietary rules. I have to confess, I'm not sure exactly how candles could be unkosher, unless (maybe?) they have animal fat in them and the animal wasn't killed according to kosher standards. Chuck would have an answer, but he's in Naples and I'm sitting in DC. I'll find out and let you know. So glad that Kayleigh is getting interested in this stuff!! Hannukah is the perfect holiday to introduce to kids, not (only) because of the presents, but because the story is so cool. Purim is another great holiday-- definitely contact the temple before then, and take Kayleigh to the Purim party. It is all about dressing up like a princess and parading around, which CLEARLY Miss Kayleigh would LOVE!! L

Lisa, your friendship has meant so much to me as we've moved forward through all of this. I have to tell you, I've never read the forum with actual tears in my eyes, until I just read your post. You understand me, and our situation, so incredibly well... and make me feel like I'm on the right path no matter what we decide. I've felt really awful about the indecision (I really really thought we had gone through all of the emotions, and come to peace with our fertility stuff... and we had pretty well convinced everyone else-- social workers, friends, our parents, ourselves-- that we had as well). But you've made me feel much better about changing our minds, at least for now. And trust me, I don't tend to change my mind, being my type-A self and all. This really has been one of the most agonizing decisions we've made... but the great part of it is that we know at the end we'll end up as parents one way or another, which is all we've ever wanted. And, much as I hate to admit it, someone up there is making things work out for the best for us... if we had gotten pregnant when we first started, or even when we first broached the fertility treatments, there's so much that we would have missed out on. Meeting you (and the rest of the Fishies), not least of all. As for your journey, I totally understand looking to the "other" side because it seems easier. You've had a rough road of it this time, but you know that it is all part of the journey to the right child for you guys. Kayleigh may have been quicker to appear in your lives once you found Abrazo, but the path to her wasn't easy, either. I'm convinced that nothing really good ever is. Thank you, my wonderful friend, for your incredibly strong shoulders. I've already learned to lean on them, and I'm sure I'll be leaning even harder as we move forward. Just know that my shoulders are (albeit across the ocean) always here for you as well.

It is funny... we had gone through the whole spectrum prior to coming to orientation, and really thought we were 100% ready to walk away from infertility. I'll confess, we thought we might end up turning back to fertility for our 2nd child, once we were back in the US. But we knew we wanted a child, and I've NEVER felt the need to be pregnant in order to be a mom. Like a lot of other people, Chuck and I discussed adoption from almost the outset of our relationship. I had a feeling that I'd have trouble getting pregnant, and was open with him about that, and he was always very supportive about the adoption option. As those of you in the Fish group heard, we had a comedy of errors in our fertility treatments, because all of them were done in Italy. (Lack of privacy, while the funniest part of the story, was the least of our troubles!). When everyone was telling their stories at orientation, and it came to our turn, I joked around about the stuff that had happened... but we were realizing even then that our story just didn't feel finished. When Elizabeth asked me what my biggest fear is, I wasn't expecting to say what ended up popping out of my mouth-- that my biggest fear was that we ended the fertility side of things too soon. Chuck and I did a lot of soul searching that weekend, and decided together that we wanted to wade back into the fertility side of things. I think knowing, without a doubt, that Abrazo was waiting, and was such a legitimate option, gave me the stregnth to step back into it. So we're heading back to the US sometime in 07 for a round of treatments (they say IUI would be sufficient, but since I have to spend a full month in the US no matter what we do, and IVF has such a higher rate of success given my background... we're going to do IVF). I said I'd never go down that road... but I know I have my Abrazo/Fish family support, and that makes it all much easier to deal with. And if it doesn't work, you all are proof positive of how wonderful life can be with adoption!! Lauren

Heidi, I'm sure the boys will love the children's service. L'shana Tova to you and to them. Have a happy and a healthy new year- Lauren and Chuck