Adam & Beth
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Posts posted by Adam & Beth
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My wife just sent our inquiry in today. I have been reading this forum for a while now, and I think that all of you that post on here are just amazing people. I am actually kind of addicted to this forum. I have gained a lot of knowledge about Abrazo from this forum that I don't think I could have learned anywhere else.
Thank you everbody,
Mark
Mark,
Welcome to the Forum! It's nice to have more guys posting around here
We look forward to getting to know you better and following you and your wife's adoption journey.
Best wishes to you both,
Adam
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Happy to help and Thank You for raising such a good question. It might be applicable to many Abrazo families who could potentially be Againers one day.
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Melissa,
I did speak with our social worker today, and used myself as an example if we were to adopt again in a few years.
(I told her the scenario and that I would share her information as an unofficial statement, but she said, it should be fine as she feels comfortable in her information)
"Ah, Good Ole Texas. They are about as thorough as it gets when it comes to adoption requirements.
Typically the 'cut-off' for Tennessee is 5 years. If it's been 5 years or more since your original full homestudy was done, you will need a full homestudy to be compliant with the state standards. If it has been less than 5 years (say 3-5 years), a homestudy Update will suffice. You could do either though since it has been a few yeasr.
If you are less than 3 years, all you need is the Update. A full homestudy would be an added expense you don't need to incur"
So, if you are less than 5 years since your first full homestudy was done, you should not experience any ICPC issues between Tennessee and Texas if you if have a thorough Update performed (Update meeting Texas standards). "
Our social worker is a licensed TN Social Worker and an Abrazo mother
.Hope that helps. But, just to play it safe, I still suggest clearing it with the agency/social worker that will be doing your update & post placement visits.
Good Luck,
Adam
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Hope someone can understand my ramblings...
Makes perfect sense to me and I'd like to know the answer too as if we do look at adopting again someday, we may be in the same scenario.
I'll be talking to our TN social worker this week and will see if I can ask her the question to get her perspective.
Thanks,
Adam
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... start taking him [to Sunday School / Church] during maternity leave and hopefully that will be a habit that Casey can continue when I go back to work.
Any other dad's do this alone?
We have a somewhat similar scenario as Beth too works on Sundays.
At our house Sundays are "Daddy's Day"
as Beth works full time as the church Youth Director (kids ages 12-18). She works from 8 am to 8 pm on Sundays. Busy day! Sunday is my day to make sure he gets fed, dressed for church, gets to the nursery on time so I can get to Sunday School and service, etc. etc..etc...
During the week we split duties pretty well, but Beth always has more time with him on weekdays as he attends PDO (Parents Day Out) at our church so he goes to and from work with her. She has him in her office from 2-5 pm each day.
When Nathan turns 2, he will start attending service with us regularly instead of being in the nursery. Another nice perk will be that when he turns 2, he can attend full time Day School at our church so Beth can have the full work day to get things done and be one building away from him at all times if she wants to check in on him
While working for a church doesn't pay well, we do get a reduced rate for the Day School so that will help.Nathan is only 7 months old right now, so I've still got a little while before he's out of the church nursery. We've got a great children's program at our church too so he'll be in good hands when he exits the nursery.
We hope to finalize our adoption in the coming months and then have Nathan baptised. It will be a very special occassion
(both Finalization and Baptism).Beth said she was at a small shop the other day that sold baptismal gowns. One of them was over $500!
Nathan won't be sporting anything like that, especially for a 1 time wear outfit Hopefully we can just borrow one from a friend or find an inexpensive one on Ebay.-Adam
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6?! WOW! Now that is an instant family!
I know I used to want a bunch of children like my parents had (4), but life sometimes turns out differently than you expected. We are blessed with our son and aren't even 100% positive there will be a second child in our future.
Wishing these dear children all the best and hoping that a special family can keep them all united...soon.
Peace be with them,
Adam
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Erin and James,
I can only agree with the rest of these responses...
I think birthfamilies are as varied as those seeking to adopt. I've been blessed with 6 great kids (5 through adoption, 4 through Abrazo). The last adoption involved a couple parenting 6 kids and they chose me, a single mom at that, because of my family size!
Best wishes for a smooth journey!
Kris
That is cool
and good news to those with children who may wish to grow their family further through Abrazo.I too like the way you phrased it ... "birthfamilies are as varied as those seeking to adopt".
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I think most people will tell you that childless couples statistically place quicker based on the what expectant familes are looking for, but many, many children are placed in loving homes with siblings there to welcome them home!
Best wishes to you guys! Glad to have you here!
. Some of the other agencies we investigated as we were making our decision indicated that we would be considered lower priority over childless couples.Welcome Erin & James.
Just as a note, I concur with Andrea's post about "statistically speaking", but I can tell you that we had one birthmother we really liked and who liked us (and one other couple) and she selected the other couple because she wanted a gaurantee that her child would have a sibling. At least that was one major point of consideration. Though it was our intent to have more than 1 child in the future, we could not gaurantee it.
But, We believe we were placed with the child God intended for us so all is good. Just a note that in some cases, birthmothers may actually want to place their child with a family w/children over a childless couple.
Good luck!
-A
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My apologies Linda
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I don't know if this belongs here but here goes.
I just watched Dateline telling a story about a girl pretending to be pregnant and promising this child to more than one couple, asking for money from all of them, then cutting all communication.
Did anyone see it?
The desire to become parents is so strong that by not having an Agency like Abrazo to be the inbetween for the bp and ap more than money can be lost. Not to say that some this cannot happen with an Agency as there are those who may not be as sincere about there adoption but the professionals have the exprerience to know most of the time who is for real or not.
This story just blew me away and the adoption fees is what keeps the Agency open to help bp and ap also to have the people in the Agency with the proper credentials doing the best they can for us all.
If some of this has been said before I am sorry but I did not get a chance read all of this thread but just wanted to say a few words.
Thanks,
Linda
Hi Linda,
There is another thread I believe that addresses this topic (so a moderator might move it if they locate it) but I can't remember which one it is. Anyway, it is good that you share the info because you are right, it is good that we are working with a licensed and reputable agency (Abrazo) as unfortunately, there are a lot of things out there that are not on the 'up-and-up'.
Thank you for sharing the story though
-A
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I think the yard sale could be a good idea, but I wouldn't advertise that it is to help afford the adoption. You could tell close friends and maybe tell people it's to help "pay off the loans that made her adoption successful".
I am actually wondering for us if selling stuff (like Pampered Chef) and putting all the earnings toward the adoption appropriate?
...
I just don't want to lay on the guilt for people to feel like they HAVE to buy stuff...ya know?
Natalie
Merely my thoughts here, but I don't think that putting earnings from these sales towards adoption is at all inappropriate. Adoption is a an expensive process. That is a reality and finding "acceptable" ways to finance it is certainly understandable. The worry about being self-sufficient and being humble is understandable too. We feel the same way.
Now, as for the guilt trip, I personally feel that any type of product party carries with it the obligation to purchase something. Do you 'have' to make a purchase? No. Is it more or less expected of the guests? Yes (in my opinion) or at least the guest feels that way. My saying this though is not to discourage you from having the party.
I think it is a nice way to raise additional funds to help with the financial burden of adoption. It is a win-win. You get financial assistance, and the guest gets both a quality product (like Pampered Chef - we have tons of that stuff) and the added benefit of knowing they helped, in some small way, unite a family through adoption
.As a guy, I've never attended a Pampered Chef party, or any product party for that matter, but I know both my wife and I have purchased many things from the parties she's attended or that we've been invited to.
I would prefer to know that my purchasing something at one of these parties is helping a friend achieve their goal of adopting a child. That is a great cause (one near and dear to my own heart obviously) and would actually make me want to buy more stuff than I would at regular party of the same type. It would help me justify "do I Need more of this stuff?" as well
(no offense to those who sell it as most of the Pampered Chef stuff we've bought really is high quality). Whew, good thing they don't have hardware parties (I've probably got more drills than one guy should own....
)So, I suggest you let the parties go on
Good luck.
-Adam
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Welcome Julie, Melissa, and TraceB. Hang in there! I know it's hard to be patient--been there, done that! Look forward to following each of your journeys!
Cathy
It's nice to see the new mommy posting!
I'm so happy for you guys.
-A
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Hi Melissa,
Welcome to the forum! Thank you for sharing your story with us and we wish you all the best as you endeavor to grow your family through adoption. The forum is full of folks who have unique stories as well and everyone here can relate to challenges that we have faced to have children. So, please know you are in good company with understanding people.
The good news is, the open adoption process works and if Abrazo is the right fit for you, and vice-versa, you could be on your way to being a new mommy very soon
Peace be with you,
Adam
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From one IT guy to another, CONGRATULATIONS!
Thanks! I didn't know you were an It guy (now I'm scared!
). What do you do? Hi Jay. No need to be scared, that's for sure. It sounds like you have a full IT plate at work.
I work in the IT department at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.
I basically find & implement software solutions for various areas of the hospital. I do the Project Management, Implementation, and Support of those systems as well so our Applications team "own the process from cradle to grave". Not a programmer or anything. I leave that stuff to people like my older brother (developer for Microsoft).
-Adam
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From one IT guy to another, CONGRATULATIONS!
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It's a blustery March morning, here in the Lone Star State, and what better time to welcome our latest addition to the Abrazo family, the precious baby girl born to a devoted East Texas mom and placed today with her proud new parents, graduates of our Wanna Ohana orientation weekend of 8/07! (Good thing the adoptive family decided to break the news of their adoption plans to their relatives when they did, because it's given their loved ones just enough time to shop for them and outfit the new arrival with sweet little spring outfits, right in time for Easter.) Wishing them all (firstmama, new mom, doting dad and tiny angel) the joys of the season, and every continuing happiness in their lives together.
Brian and Cathy,
Congratulations on the newest Pink member of the family
-Adam, Beth, & Nathan
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Very good post Karen. You have a gift of being able to express your views well through your posts.
Lots of rhetorical questions in here, but ones that too could be shared.
Yes, and reducing it to it's purest sense does not change reality.Very true.
I do not have the answers for how to overcome our own imperfections or the imperfections found in adoptions, in general.Nor do I. Education, soul searching, and keeping an open mind I believe are the best ways to overcome the imperfections but I don't believe anyone ever overcomes all their imperfections.
Is it okay to feel entitled to make our own best decisions, knowing any decision made at any point in time is limited by our understanding of ourselves?Speaking for myself, I believe so. Provided I have made a conscious effort to understand the decision I am about to make, I believe I will choose the best decision (whether that be one that benefits me or making a decision that benefits others more than myself).
And with our decisions, should there be guilt in adopting or placing?Another rhetorical question: Or should there be guilt if someone suggests that someone else should adopt a child when they themselves may be in a position to provide that child a loving home? From a guilt perspective, It can be like seeing an advertisement for children in need or reading a touching, compassionate story and saying "someone should help those kids". Guilt is a heavy emotion and a strong motivating factor. While guilt can play a factor in adopting or placing, I would hope it is not the motivating factor.
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I just hate that because a couple cannot conceive a biological child, they must pay for the priviledge of being parents. It would be nice if Love was the only requirement, but in reality, we know that money is a big part of the adoption process. The bond between the parent and child is Love. But the process used to adopt the child is generally ecomonics. Supply and demand.
When you adopt from the State, for example, you pay only the homestudy cost and the legal costs of termination/adoption, but no agency fees, per se. Money is NOT a big part of that adoption process, but flexibility of parental preference surely is. (Supply/demand, indeed)
Yes, I went back and edited that part apparently at the same time you were responding because I agree the wording "big part of the process" was not accurate or fair. In some cases it can be, but certainly not always. Rather than say it is a big part of the process, my intention is to say it can often be a major part of the consideration as to whether or not someone can 'afford' to participate in some adoption processes. It then boils down to debate as to what is 'affordable'.
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Why is it that the whole issue of adoption fees makes so many of us squirmish, even when we do the best we can on behalf of our clients?
To me, it doesn't make me squirmish. It makes me frustrated. Not at Abrazo, but at the fact there is a cost to adopt. Abrazo performs adoption services. In order to provide a service, Abrazo has to operate. Without someone funding their operations, they could not perform the service. Without the service, I would not have my son, Nathan. I made the decision of if the fees being chared were acceptable to achieve my goal. My goal: to become a parent and share all the love I have to give a child.
So, I understand why the fees exist and why many fees must be passed on to the client, I just hate that because a couple cannot conceive a biological child, they must pay for the priviledge of being parents. It would be nice if Love was the only requirement, but in reality, we know that money is a big part of the adoption process. The bond between the parent and child is Love. But the process used to adopt the child is generally ecomonics. Supply and demand.
It would take me a novel to cover all the areas for debate on this, but above is just my 2 cents on my perception. I'm not trying to imply that Abrazo is in it for the money. I'm just saying they have to charge to provide a service that they feel a calling for. To bring potential parents in contact with children in need of a stable, loving home. Abrazo has taken on the addition steps to make it the best relationship possible by kindling Open Adoption relationships. I am grateful for them bringing Nathan's birthmother into our lives. Do I wish the process did not have fees? Sure. But that would not be realistic.
-A
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So, huge hugs and an overdue welcome, to this tiniest new child of the son, her proud new parents (graduates of our Wanna Ohana! orientation of 8/07), her enraptured "big" 'lil brother (also a Texas-born Abrazotot), and her oh-so-dear birthfamily.
Congrats to the Wanna Ohanna family on their newest addition!
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Maybe you really don't like this idea, but I can think of dozens of ways in which our society seems to think that financially incentivizing certain choices is completely ok, and an effective way of shifting societal attitudes.
Another incentivized choice in adoption is the AAP ( adoption assistance program) - This program was created to encourage the adoption of foster kids.
And while we're on the subject, what about that $10,500 adoption tax credit that adoptive families in America can get, just for adopting a healthy newborn of any race?
The funny thing us, if firstmothers were offered an equivalent tax credit for placing, we'd call it "inducement" and that would be considered a bad thing, wouldn't it??
(But when the shoe is on the other foot, well, ...?)
Is it really the same thing though? You get the tax credit up to $10,500 for adoption expenses paid. If you only pay $8000, you only get a credit of $8000. Since first parents don't generally incur financial expenses when placing a child (at least that I'm aware of), giving them a tax credit for placing is "inducement." Isn't it?
This may be more applicable for the "Adoption Tax Credit" thread, but since it has been brought up within this thread...
And then there is the criteria about a failed adoption in relation to the credit. Failed Adoption....a very unfortunate event but one that happens about what... 20% of the time? ( I think we were told at Orientation only 4 out of every 5 adoptions domestically are successful). While it's nice to be able to recoop some of the lost expenses during that failed adoption, it offsets the available credit if you should be fortunate enough (as we were) to have a successful adoption thereafter. Since you can't claim that credit for a while, the funds lost during a failed adoption could jeapordize your ability to fund a successful adoption the same year. I know that was almost our case. The funds we lost in our "long" match put us in a spot, financially, where we did not know if we would have enough to cover the applicable fees of the successful one. Fees during an adoption are due "immediately". Sure you may get some money back at a later date (the next year when filing taxes for the previous year), but that can be a ways off.
Again, it's nice to have the credit, but, depending on when the baby is born and when you will actually finalize the adoption, you really can't count on it helping you financially for a while. Sometimes it can be over a year before you will get any of the credit.
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We as a society give people financial incentives to "do the right thing" all the time -- how many of us take tax deductions for our charitable contributions, for example? -- and I think that financial incentives are often more effective and more honest than emotional or guilt-based incentives.
This is what makes us different. I don't give to charities because I get a tax deduction. I give to causes that I passionately believe in. My donation is my effort to make a difference with the limited funds that I can provide. I don't even keep records for tax purposes (sorry Anthony
). Much of what we give is untraceable, because it doesn't matter where it came from, as long as it helps.Wait a second...you are putting words in my mouth here. I don't give to charities BECAUSE of the tax deductions, and I didn't say that I did. I do take advantage of the tax deductions that our government offers as an encouragement to donate to charities, but that is something different. If anything, it allows me to give more money to my favorite charities to do good with.
If you don't like that example, then think about some of the many other ways that society gives people financial incentives to help push them to do certain things -- tax breaks if you renovate your house in environmentally conscious ways or if you use your money to buy health insurance or to save for your children's college tuitions, for example. Many employers give people time off to give blood or help with Habitat For Humanity. Many school systems give prizes or rewards for good grades....
Maybe you really don't like this idea, but I can think of dozens of ways in which our society seems to think that financially incentivizing certain choices is completely ok, and an effective way of shifting societal attitudes.
Choosing your family based on "what you can afford" is irresponsible, and shouldn't be encouraged.I have a feeling that you aren't quite saying what you mean, but if this is genuinely what you mean then I have to strongly disagree and say that NOT choosing a family based on what you can afford seems far more irresponsible to me. Ignoring the financial realities of one's situation when bringing a child into your family seems like the very definition of irresponsibility.
d
Some very valid points Darren. Thanks for your input (and there is some very good feedback from others as well). It's a heavy topic.
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I'm falling behind. I have been thinking about all of this election hoopla and I forgot to welcome one of the newest members of the democratic party. Congratulations to mom and dad and baby Michael.
Congratulations Michael! and to the new mommy & daddy
Signed,
A happy member of the Republican Party,
A happy member of the Democratic party,
and our little 6 month old Independent
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Excited and Nervous, Mailing our Adoption Inquiry today!
Best wishes to you TRACEB. I think most of us can understand those two emotions as we've been there. And the good news is, if the inquiry and application process are a good fit for you and for Abrazo, you may just find yourself as one of the newest Abrazo families Very Soon!
Peace,
Adam
INQUIRY
in Looking to Adopt
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Hi Mark,
There is a topic addressing your specific question. Click this link: FINANCING AN ADOPTION for details and feel free to post in it if you have additional questions, comments, etc.
This forum has a wealth of knowledge and if you can't find it, do just as you did and post a question. Someone is bound to know where it is or have some insight or experience.
Good luck to you!
-Adam