[ThirstQuenchers: Encouragement for the Parched]

Nice

[Baby Announcements 2007]

that picture gives me chills!!!!!!!!! i am soooooo happy for all in the photo....for the birthfamily because what anawesome, loving family they've just become a part of and for laura and eric because their hearts and lives will never be te same again now that they know jack!!!

cngrats!!

lisa

[When To Say When?]

Jenny, thanks for sharing and by the way...you're totally in the right place - and your post was awesome. I feel touched that you shared with us...thank you.

Lisa

[Open Adoption]

BIG Amen!!!!!

[APPLICATION]

Just to re-iterate what Garden of Hope is saying, I'm copying a post that Elizabeth did not long ago under the thread "Waiting for a future Orientation". She explains very well (in my opinion) in that post all the factors that go into deciding who gets an invitation to which Orientation.

One thing I can definitely attest to, the least restrictive you are, the more available you allow yourself to be to birthparents contacting Abrazo.

I've taken the liberty of changing this topic title, because we won't know for sure whether there's going to be a March orientation (or what type of clients it'll be geared towards) until we see what kinds of families get placed and what kind of homes we're needing in the next six weeks; this is also why we don't confirm anyone for upcoming orientations more than a month in advance.

For example, if we got most of our current "Againers" placed in the next month and a half, then the next orientation would need to include more families-with-kids, in their place. If most of our couples waiting on Anglo-only babies continue to wait, there would be less need for the agency to admit more Anglo-only couples. If in the next six weeks, the majority of our birthparent intakes are expecting children of African-American descent, then the next orientation would necessarily be geared to couples open to such placements.

By doing so, we try to ensure that we are only accepting as many parents-in-waiting as we can generally anticipate placing with, within a year's time, and that we have appropriate families available to meet the needs of the birthparents who are placing with us at any given time.

But we're looking forward to seeing you whenever we see you!

[APPLICATION]

Hi,

With our first Orientation (we were childless at the time), we sent our application in sometime in July 2002 and were confirmed for the August Orientation (so, a little less than a month) (funny sidenote - there was a December Orientation scheduled in 2002 and we figured we'd get confirmed for that one, not the one in August....as it turned out - we were called and asked if we could make it to the August Orientation - we went and the weekend of the December Orientation was the weekend we received the call about our daughter......talk about divine intervention and timing! Whew!)

With our second Orientation (we are againers, we have one child now), we sent in our application in late February 2006 and we attended Orientation in September 2006, so we waited 7 months to attend Orientation. But - that was more because we had issues with our schedule than anything. My husband had to attend a conference in April so we couldn't attend the April Orientation even if Abrazo had invited us to join that one. There was a July Orientation we were scheduled to attend but at the last minute, my hubby had to make a trip to China so we had to back out of that Orientation. The next one that came available was in September and we were confirmed for that one and we went......

-Lisa

[Picking & Choosing]

I want to know what was in the case as far as birthparents go. I want to know WHO the right match was and WHEN it was coming. I HATED the not knowing part of the adoption story. I agonize to see friends go through disrupted matches and or long waits. I wish there was a magic ball that would reveal the right match and the timing of it. It would certainly stop a lot of heartache.

You and me both Tina...you and me both..... Especially on that magic ball thing....

[Picking & Choosing]

The thing I hate about that game (and the adoption game, for that matter) is that no one (other than God) knows what is in your own case. It would be so much easier if you just knew what you were holding before deciding how to play! (Can you tell I HATE surprises?)

I always think of my sister when one talks about not knowing what's in your case - she and her husband birthed 2 beautiful, healthy children (planned births) and learned, quite by surprise that they were expecting a 3rd child when their youngest (my niece) was 4 years old. Of course, it didn't take them long to embrace the pregnancy, after getting over the initial shock of how their lives were going to change (they had settled into their family of 4 routine quite well) when this baby arrived. This was nearly 22 years ago. They gave birth to another beautiful healthy baby boy (their oldest, a son and their youngest, also a son) - he weighed a little over 9 pounds. They settled into their new routine well - adapted to having a newborn in the home - not all that different from what they had experienced the first time...until Jared got a little bit older - things just didn't seem right - he seemed delayed on many levels - and eventually, after numerous appointments with all sorts of specialists and all sorts of brain scans and tests and genetic testing - my nephew was diagnosed with a Delayed Central Nervous System with Autistic Tendencies - basically, Jared is autistic - he is on the very far end of the spectrum - he is nonverbal and functions at about an 18 month old level. Anyway, they had no idea what their case held - but they assumed it was a case similar to what their other 2 cases had held. And, when they learned it didn't, they adapted to the contents and embraced it and found themselves in a very different world than they had ever experienced before....but you'll never hear either one of them (or my nephew and niece for that matter) ever regret Jared entering their lives.

I am just as guilty as the next guy of wanting to know what our case will hold and just as fearful as anyone else of the unknown - but I just wonder, why is it that adoptive parents can't have the same degree of faith as parents who give birth do? Why can't we just assume that our case will bring us blessings, in whatever different ways they come? Is it to do with the birthparent factor - or what is it exactly that prohibits us from just holding on to our faith that it will all work out and whatever challenges that case may bring us, will not be too great for us to overcome? Do we underestimate ourselves and our strength and ability to grow and adapt? Or is it that we have choices that parents who give birth don't? If they were presented with the "cases" that we are presented with, would they just say, "any case will do" or would they find themselves asking questions of one another that they would never otherwise ask and making decisions that they otherwise would never have to make?

Just something that I find curious????

Lisa

[ThirstQuenchers: Encouragement for the Parched]

Life is thickly sown with thorns, and I know no other remedy than to pass quickly through them. The longer we dwell on our misfortunes, the greater is their power to harm us.

-Voltaire

[The Myths, Misconceptions, Facts, & Reality of Open Adoption]

I wonder if a good place to start this discussion would be to look at the Tables of Pros & Cons provided in the Fact Sheet I referenced above?

I think many of the fears/questions from those who are new to open adoption or who are still exploring adoption are covered under the "Cons" Table for Open Adoption. Abrazo & those reading this - would you agree? I'm sure Abrazo gets lots of calls/inquiries from people who have concerns about open adoption.

I wonder, based on all the calls Abrazo has had over the years, what would be the "Top 3 List" of questions/concerns/apprehensions about open adoption Abrazo has heard? I also wonder, for those who had questions/concerns/apprehensions about open adoption when they started but took the plunge anyway - what was your biggest fear/concern/question?

For me, and I think this is still the case - I worry about what if I have a hard time relating to my child's birthparent(s) and/or feeling a strong connection with them? What if their value system is so different from mine, their lifestyle is so different from mine that I find it very difficult and even scary at times to develop and grow and nurture the relationship with them? What if they have a substance abuse issue and that clouds their judgement and they call me for help (and not just a shoulder to lean on sort of help - what if it's the kind of help that I can't or I'm not supposed to provide because everything I've ever read and heard about open adoption relationships talks about the inequities inherent in the relationship and providing financial assistance to this person only magnifies those inequities - and why this scares me is not because I don't want to be asked for help by someone who I care about, but because I know I have issues setting boundaries and I know I struggle with feelings of guilt already over the slightest of things - what if I can't say no? What if I say no and they become angry with me or they pull away and we lose contact or it makes the next time we talk very awkward and uncomfortable?) Anyway, I know Elizabeth talks about the "living room couch" test - something about if you can't imagine your child's birthparent sitting on your living room couch and having a conversation with them, then you probably shouldn't be adopting their child (or something like that) - but what if we get a call about a BOG and we don't have the time to get to know our child's birthparent? What if who our birthparent is when we first meet them, isn't who our birthparent is over time? Anyway - this is something I still do think about - not so much that it prevents me in any way from believing in open adoption and wanting it very much - if I find myself in that situation, I'll just deal with it. Why and how do I know I can? Because I've read personal experiences on here that have shared the realities that sometimes happen when two families who come from very different walks of life come together but through the love both families have for their child (and with support and understanding and help from others who have been there/done that) - it works.

Nothing is perfect - noone claims that open adoption is perfect or without its challenges - but, as Brenda Romanchik so poignantly expresses in her book What is Open Adoption

The primary difference between a truly open adoption and a semi-open adoption is that the adopted child has the potential of developing a one-on-one relationship with his or her birthfamily. It is not about the adoptive parents bestowing birthparents with the privilege of contact, nor is it about birthparents merely being available to provide information over the years. Direct contact, in the form of letters, phone calls and visits between the birthfamily and the adopted child, along with his adoptive family, is essential if they are to establish their own relationship. After all, how can we honestly call an adoption open if the child is not involved?

Okay, so...I think I've provided a lot of food for thought in this post and I hope I get some responses - from all members of the triad and from our resident "scholars" of open adoption (aka Abrazo). And just in case you guys still aren't sure where or how to begin the next post in this thread, here's the list of "Cons" & the list of "Pros" for open adoption as they pertain to the Adoptive Parents (from the tables provided by the Child Welfare Information Gateway).

How do these relate to you and your initial thoughts on open adoption or your current thoughts on open adoption? How were you able to resolve some of these "cons" for yourself and move forward with a commitment to open adoption? Are there any that you'd like to add?

Potential PROS of Open Adoption for Adoptive Parents

Increased sense of having the "right" to parent and increased ability for confident parenting.

Potential for authentic relationship with the birth family.

More understanding of children's history.

Increased empathy for birth parents.

Less fear of birth parents reclaiming child because they know the parent and their wishes.

Delight of being "chosen" as a parent.

Potential CONS of Open Adoption for Adoptive Parents

Full responsibility for setting relationship limits and boundaries.

Potential pressure: accept openness or no child.

Potential difficulty with emotionally disturbed birth parents.

Potential for supporting both child and birth parents (emotionally)

[The Myths, Misconceptions, Facts, & Reality of Open Adoption]

To begin with, I think an introduction to what Open Adoption is, what it means is pretty important. I think this definition/point of view of Open Adoption is really, really good.

This article is an excerpt from Brenda Romanchik's book "What is Open Adoption"

I think everyone can benefit from reading this excerpt (it isn't long, approximately 10 very short paragraphs).

What Is Open Adoption? (By Brenda Romanchik)

Another really informative bit of information on open adoption can be found by clicking the following link

Openness In Adoption - A Fact Sheet For Families

which was published by the Child Welfare Information Gateway in 2003, According to the description of this fact sheet on the Child Welfare Information Gateway website,

This factsheet describes the benefits of postadoption contact with birth parents and reviews considerations for determining the degree of openness that is most appropriate for the child. It suggests that adoptive parents consult Internet websites, books, counselors, and other parents when making decisions about open adoption. The factsheet includes a chart of the advantages and disadvantages of confidential adoptions, mediated adoptions, and open adoptions.

And just in case the link breaks, I've copied the fact sheet here (as it says the information can be freely distributed - as long as I reference the source which is the Child Welfare Information Gateway) The benefit of reading it from the actual website is that it contains links to resources it lists and it's formatted better than what I've just copied here.

What is open adoption?

Open, or fully disclosed, adoptions allow adoptive parents, and often the adopted child, to interact directly with birth parents. Family members interact in ways that feel most comfortable to them. Communication may include letters, e-mails, telephone calls, or visits. The frequency of contact is negotiated and can range from every few years to several times a month or more. Contact often changes as a child grows and has more questions about his or her adoption or as families' needs change. It is important to note that even in an open adoption, the legal relationship between a birth parent and child is severed. The adoptive parents are the legal parents of an adopted child.

The goals of open adoption are:

To minimize the child's loss of relationships.

To maintain and celebrate the adopted child's connections with all the important people in his or her life.

To allow the child to resolve losses with truth, rather than the fantasy adopted children often create when no information or contact with their birth family is available.

Is open adoption right for our family?

Open adoption is just one of several openness options available to families, ranging from confidential, to semi-open (or mediated), to fully open adoption. In semi-open or mediated adoptions, contact between birth and adoptive families is made through a mediator (e.g., an agency caseworker or attorney) rather than directly. In confidential adoptions no contact takes place and no identifying information is exchanged.

Making an open adoption work requires flexibility and a commitment to ongoing relationships, despite their ups and downs. While this type of adoption is not right for every family, open adoption can work well if everyone wants it and if there is good communication, flexibility, commitment to the process, respect for all parties involved, and commitment to the child's needs above all.

There are many resources available to help you determine what level of openness might be best for your family. The chart included with this factsheet may help you consider some pros and cons of open adoptions. You can also:

EXPLORE THE INTERNET. Several Web sites provide research and issues to consider in open adoption:

American Association of Open Adoption Agencies helps families find agencies practicing open adoption. Adoptees on their mailing list respond to the question, "What do you wish your adoptive parents had known?"

Minnesota/Texas Adoption Research Project provides information on a longitudinal study of openness in adoption since 1985. The most recent wave included a total of 720 individuals: both parents in 190 adoptive families, at least one adopted child in 171 of the families, and 169 birth mothers. This study was the source of much of the research for this factsheet and the bulletin for professionals.

Child Welfare Information Gateway—Postadoption Contact Agreements Between Birth and Adoptive Families1 provides laws for each State on open adoption.

Insight: Open Adoption Resources and Support offers open adoption resources for professionals and support for adoptive and birth parents considering open adoption.

READ. Several recent books about open adoption may be helpful:

Children of Open Adoption by Patricia Martinez Dorner and Kathleen Silber (1997, Independent Adoption Press). The topics in this book include the essential "ingredients" for successful open adoption and communication tips for talking about open adoption with children of all ages.

How to Open an Adoption by Patricia Martinez Dorner (1998, R-Squared Press). This book gives guidance to adoptive parents, birth parents, and adoption professionals in how to navigate more inclusive relationships.

Lifegivers: Framing the Birth Parent Experience in Open Adoption by James L. Gritter (2000, CWLA Press). This book examines the ways birth parents are marginalized. The author makes the point that adopted children are best served when birth parents and adoptive parents work together to ensure that birth parents remain in children's lives.

The Open Adoption Experience by Lois Ruskai Melina and Sharon Kaplan Roszia (1993, HarperPerennial). This complete guide for adoptive and birth parents touches on almost every aspect of open adoption.

The Spirit of Open Adoption by Jim Gritter (1997, CWLA Press). This book gives a realistic look at the joys and pains of open adoption for birth parents, adoptees, and adoptive parents.

What is Open Adoption? by Brenda Romanchik (1999, R-Squared Press). Written from the perspective of a birth mother in an open adoption, this pocket guide provides concise information and resources.

Abstracts of these books are available through the Information Gateway Library Search.

TALK WITH A COUNSELOR OR THERAPIST WITH KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE IN OPEN ADOPTION. Child Welfare Information Gateway has a tip sheet on selecting and working with an adoption therapist who is informed about issues of adoption. This factsheet describes the types of mental health professionals available and provides guidelines for choosing the best resource for your family.

TALK WITH OTHER PARENTS. The National Adoption Directory has lists of foster and adoptive parent support groups in each State. Because each parent group will have its own focus, you might want to ask how many families attending the group are in open adoptions.

What questions should our family consider in open adoption?

In open adoptions, families need to consider when and how much to tell a child about his or her birth family, and then if and how to involve him or her in that relationship. An adoption professional can help you address some of these issues. Some of the questions you may want to consider include:

At what age should a child be included in contact with his or her birth family?

What happens if one party decides to break off all contact?

What will the birth parents' role be in the child's life?

How will your child explain his or her relationship with birth relatives to his or her peers?

How will you handle other adopted siblings who have different levels of openness in their adoptions?

Summary

No one level of openness in adoption is best for everyone, and each adoption changes over time. Adoptees from all kinds of adoptions, from confidential to fully open, can be emotionally healthy. Using the resources listed on this factsheet, as well as the following tables, you can decide what level of openness is best for your family.

Table of Pros for Each Type of Adoption for Involved Parties

Table of cons of each type of adoption for the involved parties

1 "Cooperative adoption" or "adoption with contact" refer to arrangements that allow some kind of contact between adoptive families and members of the adopted child's birth family after the adoption has been finalized. (back)

[The Myths, Misconceptions, Facts, & Reality of Open Adoption]

If there's one thing we (on the forum and Abrazo parents) agree on it's the belief in open adoption. We all probably still have our varying levels of comfort and experience with open adoption but I think we can all say that we are on board with open adoption and the benefits of open adoption.

I don't think though that we all started out that way when we found Abrazo or when we began our quest to learn about adoption (although I have read some who did believe in open adoption from the very beginning (although they may not have even known at that time that what they felt was important was basically an open adoption type of relationship)). Anyway, as with most things that we may be unsure about, our comfort with and belief in open adoption has come from a greater familiarity with it and what it is and what it isn't - we've learned about it, we've heard people's personal experiences with it, and we've grown more familiar with it. Some of the misinformation we once had about it has been clarified for us, some of the questions we had about it have been answered, and then there are those who just took the plunge and had no idea what to expect and have just learned as they went and have realized that what they may have feared or been uncertain about in the beginning turns out to be a non-issue.

There are lots of topics on the forum and lots of posts on the forum among many different topics that talk about open adoption - but what I'm hoping to accomplish in this topic is a place where we can share some of the myths, misinformation, misconception, facts, and realities of adoption - whether it be through personal stories/experiences or through external resources that provide good statistics or whatever - I am just hoping to help anyone who may be new to open adoption or who may be a little unsure about what it's all about and has questions about it but isn't sure how to ask them or is afraid their questions/fears may not be "okay" to ask - I'm hoping to show them that most, if not all of us, have had those same questions, have had those same concerns and just about noone comes to Abrazo or open adoption with a fully open heart and mind to open adoption - we all were new once and didn't have a clue what to expect, what was meant by open adoption, what would be expected of us in doing an open adoption, etc etc etc....

I hope this topic will be a work in progress and it will put at ease the minds of those who are needing some "warm fuzzies" when it comes to open adoption.

Unfortunately, I have to take Kayleigh to a birthday party (right now!) and I'm not able to get this going but I'll definitely come back to this later - just thought while it was on my mind, I'd put it out there....

-Lisa

[The Welcome Wagon!]

Just in case anyone missed this in its original spot (under "About the Forum"), thought I'd copy here it too

Thanks to everyone for helping out with the effort to welcome our new members

Lisa

Just an idea! If you're killing time on the Forum and looking for something productive to do OR if you feel a need to "do a good deed" on behalf of your Forum family, how about this?

Go to "Members" (the link in the light purple bar above, right under the masthead.) What you can then view is a 26 page listing of all our Forum members!! Those who registered but never provided us with identifying information to activate their Forum Rewards registration are listed not as members but as "guests" (so if someone you know is there, call them and remind them to email the webmaster with their name and address so they can become Active Members without delay!) Our most loyal members can be quickly identified by the number of chili peppers adorning their box. This table will also show you who are "lurkers" are-- those members who have never posted even once, some of whom have been Forum readers for years! Let's get them (and our newest members) sharing their thoughts and perspectives, too, this year!!

If you go to "Members" and click on "Toggle More Options" then scroll to the bottom of the "Search & Filter" box, you'll see a strip that allows you to search for members: select "by join date" and then in the next field, select "in DESCENDING order" and then select how many you'd like to see. Submit this request, and the system will pull up a collection of our NEWEST forum members. If you click on their screen name, it should take you to their profile, which will enable you to leave them a message of welcome, or better yet, you can even email them a note to say you're glad they found the Forum. Encourage them to get active, because only by posting can we get to know each other and offer support through life's journeys.

OR, wander through the table of all forum members; if you click on their name and go to their profile, you can see when they visited the Forum last. Choose those who haven't been on in a while, and send them an email to let them know they've been missed! Or select Forum members who have never posted or rarely do so, and encourage them to join in the dialogue! Tell them that you're interested in their story, and help them find their voice on the Forum.

Let's see how many of our newcomers and lurkers can be encouraged to come out of the shadows into the sunlight, so they (and the rest of us) can benefit more from their membership here!

Help lead 'em from this: to this: !!

[Employer Adoption Benefits]

hey mm,

i posted a link to the letter in my post...i think it's the same one sue used....

[Adoption Risks]

just bumping up ....only 2 votes in this poll....anyone else care to vote (and share, if you're comfortable w/that)

[ORIENTATION]

If you're reading this thread, be sure to check out this thread too Waiting on a Future Orientation Weekend

-Lisa

[Employer Adoption Benefits]

Eli Lily is one of the reader-nominated top companies listed on AF's website - woo hoo!

Nokia did also pay for some of our unreimbursed infertility expenses (up to $3500) so kudos to them for that too. They aren't listed though in AF's lists - hmmmmm....wonder if they've cut some of those benefits (Lance was laid off from there about 2 years ago so I'm clueless about what they offer these days - where he works now doesn't offer anything like that but it's a Chinese owned company so I guess with their population problems, they don't really see the value in reimbursing people for trying to get pregnant - although you'd think that they'd be friendlier about the adoption benefits - it's still new here though (the company) so they're still getting things set up - they only just started contributing/matching Lance's 401-K (and let's just say their matching isn't exactly competitive for the telecom industry - they could definitely do a better job there as well)

-Lisa

I know my brother in law and his ex-wife looked into this with his company. I believe that his company "Eli Lilly" payed for infertility expense (up to a certain point) and adotpion expenses (again to a certain point). I have always heard great things about this company...so if anyone is looking for a job you might think them!!!!

[Finding the Right Agency For You]

If you're trying to locate an agency through which to adopt, one thing you want to make sure of is that the agency has a valid/verified child placing license in the state where they're located. Just because they do, doesn't necessarily mean they're a top-notch agency or the right agency for you, but it's a start in the right direction (i.e. if they don't have a license, you don't want to waste your time)

Here's a link to the government dept that has a listing for each state (the link I've included is specific to Texas but you can select another state from the drop-down list if you're looking for agencies in a state other than Texas).

It's called the National Adoption Directory Search Results (for Texas)

According to this site, the state of Texas has 49 licensed Child Placing agencies - and this is how the describe those agencies in their list:

Licensed Private Adoption Agencies for Domestic Adoptions

Agencies included on this list have a verified child placing license in the State in which the agency is physically located at the time of addition to the Directory. Inclusion on this list does not represent an endorsement or recommendation by the Child Welfare Information Gateway or the Children's Bureau.

And for the record - yes - Abrazo is in the list!

Lisa

[Employer Adoption Benefits]

Wow! That's great! I know with Nokia's adoption assistance benefit - there really was no catch at all - we just had to provide documentation to them supporting the $3,000 to get the reimbursement (I probably have the paperwork somewhere - I can't remember if we had to wait until finalization - I think we did and I think we could only claim agency fees, which was fine - we had more than $3000 in agency fees).

I hope there's no catch for you guys - that's fantastic! I'm always curious too why some companies are so great about their adoption assistance benefits, and others are not? Like, for the ones that are - is someone in charge an adoptive parent or how did they decide to be so awesome with regards to adoptive parents?

-Lisa

[Employer Adoption Benefits]

Ever wonder which companies are considered "adoption friendly"? I have! When Lance worked at Nokia, they offered a $3,000 adoption assistance benefit which we were very thankful for and expressed our appreciation with a thank-you to the President (hoping that if ever during "cuts", they wouldn't let that be one of them).

Anyone else work for a company that offers a big thumbs up for how they treat adoption? Feel free to plug 'em here so we can support companies who have values that matter to us in the adoption community. Thumbs-downs welcome here too

Here's an article on Adoptive Families website that covers Reader's Top Picks for Adoption Friendly Companies!

Making It Work - Top Adoption Friendly Companies

And if you do work for an adoption friendly company, don't forget to express your own thanks/thumbs-up and let them know how much you appreciate it!

And...if you're working for one that isn't up to par just yet with adoption benefits, this link even provides a Adoption Benefits Sample Letter you can send to your company's "big cheese" as AF puts it to hopefully make them aware of the need to offer adoption assistance benefits to others who take this journey.

-Lisa

[Medical Insurance Coverage & Requirements]

Boy Susan, I sure wish I would have known you/read this before we got the call about Kayleigh - it would have saved Lance and I a few agonizing and scary hours.

As I mentioned in another post - when we rec'd the call about Kayleigh, we were informed that it would be a private pay case because her birthmother did not have insurance, nor did she qualify for medicaid. At that time, Kayleigh was to be discharged from the hospital the following day (she was born on a Thursday, we got the call on Friday evening and she was to be discharged on Saturday). Kayleigh was a home birth so even though Abrazo couldn't really estimate during that first phone call what her medical bills would be, we weren't too concerned - we imagined they'd be something we could manage without going to extraordinary measures to cover them.

So, on Saturday, when we talked to Abrazo, we were told that Kayleigh had been admitted to the NICU the night before (or maybe we even found that out later Friday night - we were off and on the phone with Abrazo quite a bit that weekend). To be honest, the last thing on my mind at that time was how much the medical bills were going to be - I do remember talking to my sister who had worked in the NICU just to get a rough idea of what we were looking at and I remember she said something about when she worked in the NICU, just the bed in the NICU alone was about $1600 per day - that was without any tests or procedures or any "extras". Anyway, our placement was scheduled for Monday so still, the medical bills weren't that big of a concern to us - we could handle a few days of NICU.....(and trust me, at that point - there was nothing that could keep us from proceeding with taking placement of our angel, certainly not some pesky medical expenses!)

Anyway, on Monday - Lance started talking to his employer and our insurance carrier to find out what we needed to do to get Kayleigh added onto our insurance (a group insurance plan). We were told that she couldn't be added until she was legally adopted - as in when her adoption was finalized. Oh my gosh - I just remember my heart just sank - not because we weren't going to go through with the adoption, I was just freaking out at what we would have to do in order to pay those bills - at the time, there was no estimate as to when she would be discharged from the NICU and although she was by no means one of the sickest babies in there, there was just a lot they didn't know and weren't able to give a lot of information on (and no info to us at all because we hadn't taken placement so all info we got was the info that the NICU would give to Abrazo and Abrazo would relay to us). I remember for 2 - 3 hours I was just imagining how different everything was going to be - I had planned to stay home with her and suddenly, that was gone because I knew I would be going back to work if we had hundreds of thousands of medical bills to deal with - we had a 4 bedroom house with a nursery I'd fixed up for Kayleigh - I knew we'd have to sell our house and move into an apartment - I mean, the life I had imagined with our child that we'd been waiting for had just vanished before my eyes - I had so much I wanted to give her and it just felt like in a flash, it was all gone.

Elizabeth to the rescue - when she got there to do the placement (which was just us signing the paperwork in our hotel room because Kayleigh was still in the NICU), we told her what we'd been going through with the insurance and she very non-chalantly said, "they can't do that - it's illegal" or something like that - it eased our minds a little bit but it was like pulling teeth to find someone who could give us the right information - noone at the insurance company could (and it was United Healthcare) - they kept pushing us off onto the HR people where Lance worked - the HR people where Lance worked were telling us the whole "legally adopted" thing and had no clue what legally adopted meant or how it was defined - to us, legally adopted meant when it's finalized and when we'd ask them about that, they would say, "Yes, that must be it" - it felt like we were the first people at this company (who is an international huge telecom company that has over 25,000 employees) to ever adopt a child and go through this. Anyway, finally - Lance asked to speak with the head of the HR department for the USA - she called him back and after a very lengthy conversation and a couple of return calls - she confirmed to him that Kayleigh would be covered upon placement......Ugh - it was a nightmare!

I guess that's one reason I'm so passionate about this thread - the moral of this story - try to get all this understood and worked out PRIOR to getting that phone call - because the last thing you want to be fretting over when you're adopting your precious, long-awaited little angel is whether or not you'll be able to cover medical bills, etc.

That's also why when I read Elizabeth's post from the other day - I hope that EVERYONE takes heed of her advice (which I've bolded below). It's possible, this may not ever affect you and that's great if it doesn't. But - let me just emphasize that when you're are experiencing such a joyful moment such as your child's adoption, you just don't want to be also freaking out over medical bills that may mount - definitely have a Plan B...just in case. Don't assume anything.

Adoption agencies have no way of predicting (1) how much hospital bills may run, nor (2) what insurance will or will not cover, nor (3) how long it may take for Medicaid/insurance claims to be processed after the discharge/placement has been done. But as Angela was saying yesterday, this makes it that more crucial that all adopting families be fully aware of the potential bills they might face should insurance deny coverage after the fact. We do try to emphasize in orientation that there are no guarantees, and that's why our estimates include all anticipated medical costs (regardless of the birthparents' Medicaid status). But it's up to each family to know their limits and to have a Plan B, if faced with catastrophic expenses for which there is no coverage (just as they would if they had birthed a biological child for whom the bills exceeded available coverage.)

Lisa

[Medical Insurance Coverage & Requirements]

I guess this is all very hypothetical but I'm also wondering if one couldn't then argue about making the coverage retro-active to birth once placement happens...and if placement doesn't happen, then obviously one wouldn't be filing insurance claims for the birth expeneses anyway?

Well, anyway - it's definitely worth trying to work it out with one's insurance company because as Elizabeth pointed out to Susan in one of her posts under the 10-4's thread:

Go, Susan!!! Amazing, isn't it, how we all pay our insurance premiums and/or our taxes to cover the costs of insurance/Medicaid but then have to go to outrageous lengths to prove that we're entitled to the very thing we've been paying for all this time?!

-Lisa

[Medical Insurance Coverage & Requirements]

Wow Susan - thank YOU so much for clarifying the interpretation and doing all that legwork - this was just far too beneficial/valuable to not copy it here so that if someone who is looking into the insurance thing finds this thread, they'll be sure to see your post.

Anyway, thanks!!

Lisa

[Medical Insurance Coverage & Requirements]

Some other useful insurance discussions from the H3's thread...

-Lisa

Ah!, you just have to love legal paperwork

Talked to our insurance company today. They cannot sign the agreement regarding child coverage prior to the child being added to my plan, BUT they did emphasize that as soon as the child is added to the plan (within 30 days of the placement event) Everything would be covered. They also said after the child is on the plan, they can provide a Letter of Coverage.

So, good news is BABY IS/will be COVERED

Bad news, can't get that specific form filled out (but I think I remember in Orientation the girls saying that this is not uncommon ---insurance not filling out that form)

Anyone else go though this?

Adam,

I had the same issue. My insurance company would not sign a letter stating coverage. However, I was able to find the policy description from my corporate HR department which states that health coverage is effective at the time of placement. That was the best I was able to provide.

Isn't this part fun?!?

Good luck getting everything completed and have fun at the wedding this weekend!

Todd

I have plenty of stuff from St. Jude stating the baby will be covered under insurance with the proper court documents (placement document). When we were going through this with the adoption of Annelise, they told me the coverage is "retro" to the time of birth provided I add the baby to the plan within 30 days (Life Event).

So, I'm not too worried, but I'm a real dot-your-i's and cross-your-t's kind of person so I wish they had something written stating that coverage would be good for all birth stuff. Guess I'll call the insurance company again to see if they have something stating that. I appreciate the feedback.

-Adam

GET OUT! Don't tell me you work at St. Jude as well Adam (along with Joe).

We did get something from St. Jude, I believe HR about the insurance coverage covering from the moment of birth.

Thanks. Logic says that if insurance covers mothers and children (at time of birth) and a child can't be added to a plan until they are born, then there has to be literature stating that the coverage is retroactive to time of birth.

So, I just need to check with HR next week and get it.

Thanks again.

[Medical Insurance Coverage & Requirements]

Thanks - I don't remember why but a week or so ago, I started reading y'alls thread, from the beginning but from my handheld computer which is very, very difficult to post from so I made a mental note when I ran across that great discussion on insurance in your group's thread to be sure to reference it somewhere so it doesn't get buried amongst the posts and not be beneficial to others who are new to the forum and Abrazo (because y'all have like 250+ pages of posts these days - how cool that y'all keep in touch so well with each other!!!)

Anyway - I'm guessing all worked out with y'alls insurance thing - I guess I was actually a bit surprised to read how some people's insurance kicks in at birth - wow! That just amazes me!!! Ours kicked in at placement/entrustment which happened 4 days after Kayleigh's birth - we were told when we got the call about Kayleigh (as she was a BOG who was admitted to the NICU) that it would be a private pay case (i.e. we would be responsible for all medical bills). I guess I just never realized that some companies offered insurance to employees that would take effect at birth (for adoption) - HUGE kudos to those companies (as I'm assuming that's a decision made by HR (Human Resources) on whether or not to select that option when they're shopping for insurance coverage for employees). I hope those of you who have that kind of coverage write a big letter of thank-you to whomever is responsible for making that call - because that's just a good thing to do for those who are adopting!!

-Lisa