Stork Central Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Lately, domestic adoption agencies across America are being deluged with panicked calls from would-be international adopters who have recently learned that their countries of choice are shutting down, or that the wait time for child referrals from overseas has increased exponentially. At Abrazo, we are getting scores of daily calls from folks asking whether it is possible to adopt a healthy newborn here within 6-12 months while continuing to await an international adoption referral? While we certainly appreciate their interest in our services, we do not want to see our birthparents, their babies or our program used as a "stop-gap" placement measure for those whose true desire is ultimately to adopt abroad. Abrazo advocates wholeheartedly for full-disclosure adoption, in which birthfamilies and adopting families exchange identifying information prior to placement and continue direct and personal contact throughout the years that follow. This is generally not ideologically compatible with the intentions of those whose interest in international adoption is driven by fear of (or loathing towards) openness and/or birthparents. Furthermore, while our average wait time for placement is 6-12 months, this is never guaranteed. And those who do successfully take placement at Abrazo are contractually prohibited from pursuing or accepting another placement from any source for 6-18 months after entrustment has occurred (pending adoption finalization.) For those who may have initially applied with and contracted for international adoption services but have abandoned that plan and terminated that working relationship officially in favor of pursuing a domestic, open adoption instead, we would be happy to further consider your qualifications. If not, may we be so bold as to suggest that you instead consider providing a loving home to any one of the thousands of American children in foster care who are so urgently (and immediately) in need of placement? You can find more information on that adoption option at AdoptUSkids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethAnn Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 More on this phenomenon: From USA Today: More International Adopters Now Looking Stateside From Daniel Drennan, a Lebanese adoptee: Re-evaluating Adoption: Validating the Local From United Press International: More U.S.-born Kids Being Adopted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyadoptee Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 This scares me. We already have how many mothers and fathers fighting for the right to raise their own children. I know of at least eleven cases going on right now. What about the ones that we don't know about? There is going to be a real push on women who are pregnant and single. There are tons of agencies out there that are very unscrupulous. LDS Social Services and others come to mind. In fact I know one attorney out of Florida, Patricia Stowbridge. She has a yahoo message board or msn board that her staff monitors for young women looking to place and she contacts them. How many other attorneys pull this little trick? Prospective adoptive parents need to be very aware. There has been three to four cases of "fake" pregnant women out there trying to scam them. If we feel it is out of control now, what is going to happen in the future? I heard that Togo and Vietnam have also stopped their adoptions because of unscrupulous "baby" brokers. I heard that Guatemala is still undergoing staff changes in their government agency on adoption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethAnn Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I just got off the phone with a woman who is looking for another avenue by which she and her husband can add a second child. They figured Texas might work because their first child was born in China so they assume that a Hispanic kid won't be too different. (?!) Knowing that Renee just yesterday got stuck on a 90 minute consult with a similar caller who then balked at the idea of openness, I asked "my" caller upfront if they'd initially adopted in China to avoid open adoption. She said no, it was God who sent them to China ("because I never even wanted to adopt!"). But, she added, she and her husband have no interest in knowing birthparents because that "just isn't information that we would need." I suggested to her that it is, however, information that all adopted children need... and she promptly agreed that Abrazo is not going to be "the right agency" for them! (Whew!) I'm with Amy-- these folks are ripe for exploitation, because they are all too often unaware of the cottage industry of adoption lawyers and facilitators that have sprung up in America while they were busy adopting overseas. They'll gladly take the money of those desperate enough to part with it, but whether or not an actual match or placement will result is anybody's guess. (And we know plenty of unethical agencies that will do this, as well; there's no requirement, after all, that adoption professionals only take on as many clients as they can expect to place with in any given time period. Caveat emptor!) As for all the scams in which private adopters get burned paying out thousands of dollars in hopes of getting some out-of-state woman's baby that in fact does not exist, because if there were no "buyers" there would be no "sellers," in most of those cases. Most of all, I am very concerned that the American adoption community is going to be flooded with adoptive families who have little or no interest in doing child-centered adoptions, the kind that honor the needs of adopted children to have contact with and knowledge of their birthfamilies. I worry that prospective birthparents wanting truly open adoptions, those in need of adoptive homes like Abrazo's-- who need to know their children are being placed with folks they can count on to remain accessible after placement-- may be distracted by the throngs of international-adopters-turned-domestic, willing to promise anything just to get what they want then return to their insulated lives where the adoption is "done" once baby comes home. And I feel an enormous responsibility to protect the adoptive families who have entrusted their adoption dreams to us, to ensure that our community remains true to the tenets of open adoption and that we do our best to support them in this goal, before and after each placement occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patti and Steve Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) Wanted to share something related to this that happened to me just this week. When speaking with a family member who told me she wanted to get the name of the agency we were working with in Texas -- don't worry Elizabeth I had told her prior, she just couldn't remember the name as catchy as Abrazo is....so, the reason she wanted it was that she was at a dinner with a woman who shared that her daughter had been waiting for a child from China for many years without anything happening, and now was going to look at agencies in Texas. I immediately shared that I could send her the website and name of the agency but she needed to be committed to an open adoption....if she was doing international to avoid openness this was not going to work ....I went on to reinforce that only those who embrace openness would be even considered as that is what is best for the child and they needed to give that very serious thought. The calls I am sure will keep pouring into your office I am sure -- hopefully amongst them you can find some new AP couples who maybe were a bit nervous about it all and uneducated or maybe just haven't found you yet. We have some very good friends who have an open adoption with their first child, and they just adopted from Guatemela after waiting for 5 years for another domestic open adoption with no luck they were told was primarily due to not being a childless couple (we all know there are no guarantees and there could have been lots of other reasons). They weren't as lucky as we were to find you. So I will do all I can to educate others about openness and only refer those to Abrazo that are committed to it. Thanks for ALL you do at Abrazo for the children, the birthfamilies and for us as adoptive families.... Patti Edited February 12, 2008 by Patti and Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallwein Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Excellent points Patti. Jeremy and I originally started the process to adopt through China because of the closed adoption. The reason is because we were truly uneducated about open adoption, and the many benefits to pursuing an open adoption. One of the largest resources to learning more about open adoption was through the Abrazo forum! The stories that were shared regarding real life situations were truly heartwarming, and it's really enlightening to know that open adoption positively affects all involved (BP's, AP's, and most importantly the child!). We were truly blessed to "stumble upon" Abrazo, and are excited to begin our journey! Wanted to share something related to this that happened to me just this week. When speaking with a family member who told me she wanted to get the name of the agency we were working with in Texas -- don't worry Elizabeth I had told her prior, she just couldn't remember the name as catchy as Abrazo is....so, the reason she wanted it was that she was at a dinner with a woman who shared that her daughter had been waiting for a child from China for many years without anything happening, and now was going to look at agencies in Texas. I immediately shared that I could send her the website and name of the agency but she needed to be committed to an open adoption....if she was doing international to avoid openness this was not going to work ....I went on to reinforce that only those who embrace openness would be even considered as that is what is best for the child and they needed to give that very serious thought. The calls I am sure will keep pouring into your office I am sure -- hopefully amongst them you can find some new AP couples who maybe were a bit nervous about it all and uneducated or maybe just haven't found you yet. We have some very good friends who have an open adoption with their first child, and they just adopted from Guatemela after waiting for 5 years for another domestic open adoption with no luck they were told was primarily due to not being a childless couple (we all know there are no guarantees and there could have been lots of other reasons). They weren't as lucky as we were to find you. So I will do all I can to educate others about openness and only refer those to Abrazo that are committed to it. Thanks for ALL you do at Abrazo for the children, the birthfamilies and for us as adoptive families.... Patti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethAnn Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 (Just wanted to bump this thread up, for the gentleman and his wife who previously adopted from Guatemala and wrote me today, complaining that Abrazo is being unresponsive to their need to attend our March orientation for childless couples, despite the fact that they are not childless and even though they haven't yet sent in a completed inquiry nor an application enabling us to assess whether or not they're eligible for admissions at all.) Abrazo's greatest placement resource needs, at present, are for (1) childless couples genuinely preparing for fully-open adoptions, (2) Abrazo againers whose commitment to openness we already know and trust, and (3) other folks who've previously adopted through open adoptions or who understand that openness is a lifestyle to which our adoptive families fully commit forever. Our agency is not not willing to function merely as a supplier of healthy newborns and toddlers for those who wish to have no more involvement with their child/ren's birthfamilies than they've demonstrated in the past. While we sympathize with the frustration of those whose foreign placement plans are being foiled at present, Abrazo is not an appropriate agency choice for those who cannot or do not fully embrace openness before and after placement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Mick and I really thought we would adopt from China. It was never to avoid open adoption (as I had never even heard of open adoption). We just felt like that was where God wanted us to go. It hurts me how in China they place such low value on their females. And I also thought bringing a child out of a communist country would be wonderful. When we decided to send our application into Abrazo it was b/c God really spoke to my heart. It just felt like a good fit. I am thankful every day that we went with our hearts! It makes me very sad to know that some go overseas to avoid birthparents! That is crazy to me!!! I hope some are going overseas b/c of their heart and not to avoid their child's birthfamily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyhope Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 (edited) My husband and I started learning about adoption this year, thoroughly investigating all aspects. We were so surprised to learn how much we would want an open adoption! In fact the other day I was watching an adoption show where the birthmother was "giving up her baby." She was in the hospital and didn't want to let go of her baby because she never she'd never hold her again. I was almost yelling at the tv, "why, why? Stay in touch!" It seemed like agony for her and my heart went out to her and her sweet girl who may never know much about her birthmom. I think the years of infertillity have taught us that we aren't in control of everything in our lives. We need to let go and do what's best for the child who may need us. Even if this requires us to learn about new things, ways of living and definition of family. It's about what's best for the child and getting out of our own way. I think once you educate yourself about open adoption it's hard to dispute the benefits to the child. Our inquiry is in, so we'll be patient and see if Abrazo will ultimately be where we form our family. Jenny G. Edited May 15, 2008 by mommyhope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLaurie Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Welcome to the forum, Jenny! Keep us updated on your journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tksimmons02 Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Welcome Jenny! I hope Abrazo is where you find your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam & Beth Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 I think once you educate yourself about open adoption it's hard to dispute the benefits to the child. Our inquiry is in, so we'll be patient and see if Abrazo will ultimately be where we form our family. Jenny G. Best wishes to you Jenny on your adoption journey. -Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan and Greg Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 Wecome Jenny to Abrazo and the Fourm. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Ortega Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) I wasn't sure where to post this but figured this thread is the best bet. Well, as per Elizabeth's advice, I have been sending e-mails to friends and family about us wanting to adopt. I've been searching the internet as well. Well, I got en e-mail from a nun in South Africa about a baby she had for adoption. She's been raising the child since birth (Oct. 2007). The birtmother and father are both deceased. The father died in a plane crash and the mother died from cancer a month after the child was born. The father was from Central Africe and the mother was Belgian. The sister sent me pictures of the mother and son when he was born. The nun has legal custody of the baby and she promised the mother she'd find a good home for the child instead of putting him in an orphanage. She said she had a few families that were interested in adopting but that they couldn't promise to keep in contact with her throughout the child's life on how he is doing. I told her that I had no problem with that because I believe in open adoption. She told me the name of an attorney she is working with who does international adoptions. I researched the law firm and the attorney and they seem to be legit. The sister is being transferred to the Phillipines in a month and needs to find a home for the baby before she leaves. After going back and forth with e-mails, the lawyer has finally contacted me. My husband and I have talked this over at length and want to go forward. So, I want to know if anyone has ever gone through international adoption and if you have any advice on what we should expect so we know if things seem to be going the way they should. I am scared to be doing this without an American agency being involved but this is the way it's happened. My brother is an attorney here in the states and will be helping us but he says that it's kind of difficult because the laws in Africa are so different and he doesn't the law there. Are we getting in over our heads????? Edited May 21, 2008 by Ms. Ortega Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethAnn Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Gosh, that would be great if it were 'for real' but obviously, you'll want to proceed with equally great caution at this point... Because of the Hague Treaty, there are very stringent new standards for international adoptions so you really need to first get an adoption attorney who is well-versed in immigration law, then be absolutely sure that you are sending no money anywhere, until or unless you know beyond any shadow of a doubt that everything is completely legal. There are plenty of American agencies that can handle adoptions in Africa, so strongly consider signing up with one of them before getting too deeply involved, emotionally or financially. (Unfortunately, as per the examples below, there have been a number of African scams floating around out there; have you checked to be certain that you know which religious order this nun is with, and why the child would have been left in her personal care, and by whom? If she truly has the legal authority to "place" this child, that means a court has had jurisdiction over the case, so you'll want to personally contact that foreign court for direct verification.) Good luck! NJ Nun Finds Her Identity Stolen in Foreign Adoption Scam American Adopters Lose African Children Placed Illegally Catholic Church Officials Uncover South African Adoption Scam U.S. State Department Advisory: South African Adoptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Ortega Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Thanks for the advice Elizabeth. We are proceeding with extreme caution. We have checked the order the nun is with and she is a member. We have checked the orphanage and it is legit as well as the law firm. I am not getting my hopes up but "yes", it would be great if this is for real. It's hard not to let my emotions play a part in this but I know that there are bad people in the world so we are making sure every stone is turned before we proceed with anything financial. Thank you so much for the articles. Please let me know if you have any other advice. It will be deeply appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Ortega Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Wow, I just read the articles and they are terrifying. This is exactly what I'm afraid of. It probably is a scam because it sounds a little too good to be true. I knew this was the place to get advice from. I am still investigating and will keep you posted. Thanks again Elizabeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawnna Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 I have a friend that adopted from Africa. Her nad her husband have 3 bioligical children but they had gone there for missionary work one summer. After being there they felt led by god to adopt. They wanted an open adoption as well. I'm not sure exactly how it happened but they adopted twin gilrs from a family with 4 other children. They kept in touch for 6 months, then they went a month without hearing anything from the family. When they finally did the twins dad had been killed in an accident. The birth mother couldn't afford to keep the other 4 children and wanted them to adopt these as well. Now they have 9 children. They decided when this happened that they will buy the birth mother a computer and they now are able to communicate every day. She say's it has been hard but very rewarding as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Ortega Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Okay, I've decided not to pursue this any further. I could kick myself in the butt for pursiung this in the first place. I filled out the first inquiry that asked for indetifying information so now I am worried about that. Hopefully nothing bad will come of this. I should've asked for advice before I did anything. O'well, live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suebee Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Okay, I've decided not to pursue this any further. I could kick myself in the butt for pursiung this in the first place. I filled out the first inquiry that asked for indetifying information so now I am worried about that. Hopefully nothing bad will come of this. I should've asked for advice before I did anything. O'well, live and learn. Melissa, I would not feel bad, just relieved that you were probably spared a lot of heartache. Many people fall for these scams because when you want to be a parent so badly, you are emotionally vulnerable. You were wise to seek counsel here...particularly from Elizabeth...she's got a lot of experience and will always shoot straight! Wishing you the best on the journey to your child... Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Ortega Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Thanks Susan. I still feel like an idiot though. At least I didn't get too far into it. We are taking our parenting PRIDE classes through the state in a couple of weeks and then we will be licensed. I think I'm going to stay with the state for now at least until we can find an American Agency we fit with . I'm still so very happy we found Abrazo even though we weren't a match for the full service program. I have learned alot here and enjoy reading the forum everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry&robin Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Melissa, Don't feel like an idiot. The desire to be a parent can be so strong for some that it can be difficult to make decisions based on logic and not emotion. Praying that you and Danny find the right avenue to fulfill your dreams of parenthood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karen&scott Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 I still feel like an idiot though. At least I didn't get too far into it. Melissa and Danny, I am really glad you posted this experience on the forum because we ALL learn how easy it is to be scammed (or at least get caught up), and not just think it can only happen to desperate people who do not know better. Glad you are here to learn and to help us learn too! Stay plugged in and keep reaching out because it may lead you to the right place, to the right person, for all the right reasons. Good luck, Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommyhope Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Thanks Susan. I still feel like an idiot though. At least I didn't get too far into it. We are taking our parenting PRIDE classes through the state in a couple of weeks and then we will be licensed. I think I'm going to stay with the state for now at least until we can find an American Agency we fit with . I'm still so very happy we found Abrazo even though we weren't a match for the full service program. I have learned alot here and enjoy reading the forum everyday. Hi Melissa, I think it's so sad that these types of scams exist. Talk about people preying on you when you are most vulnerable! Hopefully you'll just move on, no harm done. I wonder if you might want to check your credit report sometime soon, just to make sure nothing fishy is going on. Hopefully the inquiry didn't ask for much confidential info. But it can't hurt to check just to make sure someone isn't using your info in the wrong way. I had that idea and just wanted to pass it to you. Best Wishes! Jenny G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Ortega Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Thanks Jenny, We're already on it. We've been checking our credit and nothing has showed up yet. The attorney and nun e-mailed me again this morning. I can't believe these people. I didn't open the e-mails, just deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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