Baby Step: Start-Up Advice for Newbies

[marthaj]

The remaining orientation weekends for 2004 are listed under Forum Topic/Title:

The Abrazo Forum -> Adoptive Parents -> Orientation Weekends, The Whens and Whats

The post is dated Jan 29, 2004. Be sure and check with the Abrazo office for confirmation just in case the orientation weekend dates have been rescheduled for some reason.

Good luck!

[Sammy]

My husband and I are thinking about adopting through Abrazo. I have been on this website/forum and I'm reading everything I can (even posts from years ago) to learn as much about the agency/AP's/BP's that I can. I am seeing a trend that it seems many AP's have had adoption plans fall through. I can tell that Abrazo staff seem to be supportive and helpful when that happens (and it's not a matter of if but when), but what happens financially when you start down the road with BPs and they change their minds? Does Abrazo apply money you've paid to that point towards another adoption? How often does one Adoptive family go through failed adoption plans before they finally get a child? The reason I ask is my husband and I have already gone through 4 failed IVF cycles and a failed adoption plan (not through Abrazo) so we'd like to minimize our risks at this point.

Also it seems that many AP's talk to a lot of birth mothers before a match goes through. Realistically how many BPs can we expect to talk to before it happens for us? We don't want to erroneously get our hopes up with the first BP we talk to.

While we are new to this Agency, we feel we are fairly experienced on adoption in general given what we have been through. We have a completed home study and we are eager to adopt as soon as possible since we have been at this awhile. What is a realistic time frame we can expect to wait with Abrazo? for an Anglo newborn? Cauc/Hisp newborn? and full Hispanic newborn? we are open for any of the above but want to get an idea.

Sorry for such a long post - we just have so many questions? and while its easy to hear all the great things about Abrazo I also want a realistic picture of the possible pitfalls and problems we could face in this process.

Thanks for your help!

[Guest Adoptive Dad]

Hi Sammy,

Well first of all, I wish you and your husband all the best as you go down this road. I can only imagine the emotional toll going through 4 failed IVF cycles AND a failed adoption attempt.

Speaking to the financial side of it, you can certainly take advantage of the IRS $10,000 Adoption Tax Credit. Should, God forbid you experience yet another failed attempt; you can still apply the credit toward the failed attempt and have a fresh $10,000 for the next, successful, attempt.

All the Best!

[linlacor]

Hi Sammy,

Glad to hear you've been able to navigate all the posts on here fairly well and it sounds like you've been able to gather lots of information so far.

Anyway - I think your concern (and my apologies for speaking on behalf of so many but hopefully I'm not way off base here) is extremely common (the financial aspect of it - especially when you've gone through expensive infertility treatments like IVF (we did 2 unsuccessful IVF attempts that were not covered by insurance).

I know for us (and for most, if not all, of the people in our Orientation (we attended the August 2002 Orientation after sending in our inquiry & application in July 2002 - we adopted our daughter Kayleigh in December 2002 (she is full anglo (Caucasian) b.t.w.) - it was a HUGE concern and for my husband - it was something that he really struggled with and took a huge leap of faith that it would work out at my insistence.

I guess the biggest question we had was like yours - because of the structure of Abrazo's full-service adoption program (where you pay them an agency fee of $xx (whatever it is now - it's on Abrazo's website somewhere - I think it's around $9500 - $10K) plus you're also responsible for any case specific costs (Texas approved maternity & medical related expenses, travel expenses, legal fees, etc) what if a birthmother changed her mind at some point after we matched - we could be looking at being out of pocket quite a bit more than we had in our budget for an adoption and then if it happened a second time and a third - what if we ended up in a situation whereby we had no money left to complete an adoption. That was of huge concern to us - that we'd spend $20K - $30K and still be no further along than we were when we started and then we wouldn't have any funds left to do an adoption somewhere else. One of the reasons this was such a concern of ours (other than the obvious) was that something like that had actually happened to a guy I worked with and his wife - they had worked with 2 different agencies and hadn't been matched with a birthmother and had been waiting for years and walked away after several years of waiting from both agencies being out of pocket something around $10K - $20K (can't remember exactly). (The 3rd agency he worked with resulted in a baby girl for them).

Anyway - we envisioned these worst case scenarios but went ahead and like I said, took a leap of faith despite how risky this all sounded on paper. I had heard raving things about Abrazo from a friend of my mom's daughter who had successfully adopted their son through Abrazo a couple of years before we found Abrazo (she referred us there). She said it was a very reputable agency - very wonderful to work with, etc etc etc (her only advice - once you start your journey with them - get ready because you will "get that call" before you know it (she got her call just a few weeks after leaving Orientation and hadn't bought anything for her baby to be).

So - we went to Orientation - asked many questions about the financial side of things and various scenarios - and our understanding was (of course, the best source of information is Abrazo themself - this is totally just based on what I recall from Orientation which was about 2 years ago) was that if you unmatch with a birthmother that you will be out whatever $$ you paid toward case-specific costs (but not the agency fee - that stays on account with Abrazo for as long as you are a client of theirs working toward the adoption) because those are costs that have already been spent (for example - if you paid $300 for doctor visits for her, Abrazo has already paid the doctor's office and there is no way to re-coup that). Ultimately, we felt that things would work out - even if we had a disrupted match or disrupted adoption - it's not like we would walk away without a baby having paid enormous amonts of money.

We did not experience a disrupted match or disrupted adoption - the overall (including our travel, hotel, etc) cost of Kayleigh's adoption was surprisingly around the amount we had budgeted - I will also say that as concerned as we were with whether or not we would be able to afford everything for the adoption - once we got the call about Kayleigh - there was nothing that would have kept me from proceeding with her adoption - especially nothing financial. When we received the call (Kayleigh's case was what Abrazo refers to as a B.O.G. (Baby on the ground - meaning her birthmother hadn't made an adoption plan for her and Kayleigh was born and ready to be adopted), we were told up front by Abrazo that Kayleigh's case would be a private pay case (what that means is that the birthmother (and Kayleigh for that matter) doesn't & won't have medicaid coverage and doesn't have insurance coverage - so whatever medical bills are incurred on their behalf will be the responsibility of the adoptive parents - we were also informed by Abrazo that there was no way at that point in time that Abrazo could estimate how much the case-specific fees would be (and I had to make a decision whether to proceed or not given that information). There was no pressure whatsoever from Abrazo to proceed - although they did need my response immediately so that if I didn't want to proceed, they could find another family to contact (anytime you have a BOG - it's always a rush-rush thing, generally with very little information, and you have to think quick, move quick, and be prepared to move forward with the adoption ASAP (but - you are also asked in the very beginning when you fill out Abrazo's paperwork whether or not you want to be considered for BOGs, so if this is something you're not comfortable with, you don't have to be considered for BOG cases).

Without a doubt in my mind - I said yes - I didn't care - I felt such a feeling in my gut that this was the right baby for us that this was the right case for us - it was such an overwhelming feeling that I knew that regardless of anything - I wanted to do this. I was willing to sell our house, move into an apartment or anywhere, go back to work, anything I had to do in order to fund this adoption (not out of desperation, but because there was this voice that was so loud telling me this was right, this was the one). So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that your concerns are certainly valid but I think you will find that everything will work out (albeit not exactly as you envision it because the nature of adoption and life doesn't always work out as you expect it to - you will need to be adaptable and flexible on this journey, but that's true even if you were carrying your baby yourself - not all pregnancies and births work out exactly as they're imagined either.

Abrazo is a wonderful agency and very honest and very experienced. They have nothing to hide - you can ask them anything and they will be up front with you (sometimes a bit more blunt than you'd like but I'd rather someone tell me a straight answer if I ask than not (even if their answer is a sincere "I don't know").

And unless you work with an agency that offers a structure where you pay just an agency fee (which is usually a ridiculously high fee because the case-specific fees are rolled up into that amount and they use some worst case scenario average as a case specific fee) and their policy is that you just pay that one fee regardless of how many disruptions occur - you will be looking at that kind of risk wherever you adopt from.

Another thing to think about too - one of the reasons it seems like there are many disrupted adoptions with Abrazo is because those people are the people needing some support and guidance and help from others and others who have been there - which is why you see them posting on here. Those people who have these "perfect", smooth sailing adoptions may not post so much on here or may not have found the Forum as something they need.

We had 8 couples in our Orientation - of the 8, I think only 2 couples experienced a disrupted match/adoption and it seems like both times, it happened very early in the match - less than a month after matching (one of the disrupted matches can be read about under "Joyous Journeys" then "From a Disrupted Match to a BOG" by Denise. Within a year, all 8 of us were the proud parents of our precious babies...most of us took placement of our babies within 6 months of attending Orientation.

Feel free to contact Abrazo before you fill out an inquiry form or anything too if you want some specific questions/concerns addressed. That's also another thing that "sold" me on Abrazo - just talking to them and getting a feel for how they work. You may decide they're not the right place for you (I can't imagine....but I suppose they're not for everyone) but it also may put your mind at ease with some things as well. There's no pressure from them to do anything if you just give them a call - they're really easy to talk to.

Best wishes for y'all - keep us posted!

Lisa

By the way - I would expect to speak with more than 1 birthmother before you match with one. I spoke to 2 potential birthmothers and then the 3rd potential birthmother I spoke with was the one we "unofficially matched" with. Anyway - the 2 I spoke to first - both of them weren't sure whether they were even going to place their babies for adoption - and Abrazo told me that up front - when they called to ask me if I'd be interested in speaking with them. They told me they were just considering adoption and wanted to get a feel for what adoptive parents are like. So, I knew when speaking with them that it may not be "the one" and I didn't get my hopes up (and I'm one that ALWAYS gets my hopes up). Anyway, the 3rd person I talked to did choose to match with us but for whatever reasons didn't ever send in the paperwork the birthmothers are required to send to Abrazo in order for them to work with Abrazo and then match with adoptive parents. I was kept informed by Abrazo that she hadn't sent in the paperwork (despite them sending it to her 3 or 4 times - she kept losing it) - so, I kind of was 1/2 and 1/2 about feeling this was a match - I was hopeful but not disappointed with her losing the paperwork. While waiting for her to send in her paperwork, we weren't considered "matched" because officially, she wasn't working with Abrazo - so, our profile was still available for Abrazo to send to other birthmothers. About a month or so after being "unofficially matched" with this person, we received the call about Kayleigh - who had been born the night before we go the call from Abrazo. The rest is history and well documented on here - "Joyous Journeys" -> "Lance & Lisa's Beautiful Daughter Kayleigh".

Edited June 27, 2004 by linlacor

[Sammy]

thanks so much to both of you for the answers to my post....I didn't expect anything so soon

Lisa, I really appreciate all your time and effort...I had seen a number of your posts as I read late into the night last night and I learned a lot from them. I was hoping I'd hear from you b/c you seem to be very educated on this whole process - esp. with Abrazo....I am glad to hear the agency fees apply to the next situation w/ a birth mother should a match fall thru...and I can understand how the other maternity related expenses can not be recouped.

If you have the time, I have a couple of additional questions:

We do not live in TX, and I realize we'll have to take a trip to TX for an orientation weekend....do you know if we have to travel to meet birth mothers? or is most of that done by phone until you travel at the time a baby is born?...also, I realize most people finalize their adoptions in TX - is that an absolute MUST or is Abrazo ok if you finalize with your attorney in your own state? The reason I ask is not b/c we are unwilling to travel, it's just that it is difficult for us to travel that far as my husband is in his 3rd year of medical school (doing rotations at the hospital etc.) and taking time off (more than a day to go out of town) is not an option - which is frustrating b/c some days he just has to go in for a few hours to do 'rounds' and then leave again, but it is what it is....so we're hoping we can work with Abrazo around that issue (as long as we make it to the required orientation)?

Any answers you can provid are greatly appreciated

thanks

[linlacor]

Hi Sammy,

You're very welcome and thanks so much!!

As for trips to Texas - you'll need to plan a minimum of 3 trips to Texas - one to Orientation, one to meet and bring your baby home (which you'll need to allow at least 7 - 10 days in Texas in order for ICPC to clear (if you're not famililar with ICPC, let me know and I can explain that too - it's a mandatory thing required in every state - Abrazo has no control over that - it's called Interstate Compact) and another to finalize your adoption - which generally happens about 7 - 8 months after you bring your baby home (could happen as soon as 6 months after you bring your baby home but generally, it's about 7 months - we took placement on 12/9/02 and we finalized 7/25/03. I'm about 99.9% positive that you are required to finalize in the state of Texas and you will need to be present (but double check with Abrazo on that). I live in Washington state and that is not a requirement here - my friends I've met who are adoptive parents who have adopted in Washington state (and I believe in Oregon it's the same as well), they finalize over the telephone most of the time - and, they're able to finalize much sooner than you're able to finalize in Texas - most have finalized within 3 months of bringing home their babies (but that's a state thing - not an agency/adoption attorney thing - Texas state law requires that the baby live with you for 6 months before you're eligible to finalize the adoption).

As for whether you travel to Texas to meet your birthparents before they give birth - that's an individual thing that you and the birthparents agree upon - I think it's recommended that you do - just so that the first time you ever meet each other in person doesn't happen when they give birth to the baby and you fly in to adopt the baby. Now, with a BOG case, it's a different story - because the baby is already born, the first time you meet the birthparents (if they're open to meeting you which the majority are - ours wasn't but that's a real exception) is when you fly in to take placement, etc. Hopefully some other out of state parents will post their experiences on how many trips they took to Texas from the time they began the process until the time they finalized.

Back on the ICPC thing - while it's nice to have your husband there the entire time you're waiting to leave the state with your baby, it's not required that he's there the entire time. He will need to be there to sign the initial paperwork (when you take placement of your baby) but after that, he can fly home if he needs to (and mine did - he had to go back to work because we'd just returned from a 2 week vacation about a week prior to getting the call on Kayleigh and unfortunately, he couldn't be gone any more from work and we didn't know how long we would be there because Kayleigh was in the NICU and we didn't know when she'd get discharged. So - Lance flew to Texas (Austin) on 12/7/02 (a Saturday), we took placement of Kayleigh on 12/9/02 (a Monday) and he flew back to Seattle on Tuesday, the 10th of December. At some point, we began to have indications that Kayleigh would be discharged from the hospital around 12/19 or 12/20 & we felt that ICPC would clear around that time so we made flight arrangements to fly back to Seattle for 12/24/02 - knowing that we may have to change them (delay them and take the risk of losing $$ spent on the tickets or a change fee) if anything went wrong (i.e. Kayleigh had to stay in the hospital longer or ICPC took longer to clear) (and I can't remember all the details now on how/why we did this). We made plans for Lance to fly back to Texas (Dallas - where my mom lives) on 12/19, he arrived late that night and rented a car and drove to Austin the next day (bright and early) on the 20th and Kayleigh was discharged from the hospital on the 20th in the afternoon then we all 3 drove back to Dallas that day and stayed at my mom's house until 12/24.

Although my husband's schedule isn't quite as inflexible as your husband's - it is a pretty darn inflexible schedule (work) and just doing what he did took a lot of coordinating on his part, bringing his laptop with him on the trips, having conference calls while he was in Austin and Dallas (he even had to have one on the day we took placement of her) - it was really tough for him to be away as much as he was and compared to a lot of dads, he really didn't spend that much time with us during all that (not that he didn't want to - but at the same time, he has a responsibility also to his job and has many people depending on him for things so...such is life...the Monday after Christmas, he was back at work - never was able to take paternity leave or anything. Anyway - I would say that the amount of time my husband was with us and the trips he took and length of them was probably the bare minimum. Unfortunately, there are just so many unknowns with everything - especially with an out of state adoption....it's just really, really, really hard to plan anything. I mean, I can't tell you how many stories I've read on here where people were matched with a birthmother, she went into labor, they flew to Texas to be there, etc - and it ended up being false contractions or something and she didn't go into real labor until a week or 2 weeks later but since they were there and they knew it would be soon - they stayed and waited it out. ICPC can't be filed until after the baby is born (I can't remember if they have to wait until after the birthmother relinquishes her rights or not) and you absolutely, can not leave the state until after you get the go ahead that ICPC has cleared (leaving the state with baby is illegal and you can get in mucho mucho trouble - including having the adoption revoked - it is not something you want to take lightly...you must stay in the state of Texas until it's cleared. Also, because ICPC is handled by the state you live in and the state of Texas - it's impossible to determine how long that will take - it could take on average about 7 - 10 days (our ICPC cleared on the day Kayleigh was discharged from the hospital on 12/20) but it's taken as long as 30 days.

So, what I'm trying to say is that you really need to be prepared to be really flexible on the travel thing and the length of time you'll be gone - Abrazo may be able to work with you on some things but there are just some things that are really out of their control and are really just left to fate on how it turns out (another delay could be that a birthmother may need more time to relinquish her rights to her baby - and she can take as long as she wants - she can't relinquish her rights until at least 48 hours after giving birth but she doesn't have to do it 48 hours later - she can do it whenever she feels is the right time. I believe the majority do it at the end of that 48 hour waiting period but I'm sure there are some who wait longer (the reason ours happened 4 days after Kayleigh's birth rather than 2 days after Kayleigh's birth had to do with the day of the week - something about the social worker at the hospital didn't work on weekends or something so our relinquishment had to happen on a Monday - and it did, the 9th was a Monday.

There are a couple of physicans that were in our Orientation (the husband & wife were both physicians) - they post on here occasionally - I'm not sure how they handled the absence from their work - of course, both were out of medical school and not trying to deal with that...so it may have been easier for them.

Probably not exactly the answers you were looking for - again, these are just my opinions and thoughts - you may get a different (better) answer from Abrazo if you discuss with them but I kind of think it will be something similar (but maybe they've had experience with someone in your situation).

Keep the questions coming - I'll be glad to help answer whatever ones I can and I'm sure others will do the same.

Lisa

Edited June 28, 2004 by linlacor

[cgrace]

Sammy,

It's great that you've come to the forum to get a leg up on questions that you have. Once I talked to Abrazo, I spent 2-3 nights reading all the postings that had taken place up until that time. It was about 3,000 then, I think.

Lisa is obviously a great source for information. She's well-informed and having been through the out-of-state thing, a wealth of personal experience. I just wanted to add a couple of things.

Lisa is exactly right, only the case-specific charges are lost in case of a disruption. It is important to note that not all disruptions are by the birthmother. Our son's birthmother made an adoption plan, but because of family circumstances, she couldn't stay in contact with Abrazo or her matched family. That scared them (not illogically so) and so they "broke" the match. When she went into labor, she called Abrazo and they swung the BOG machine into action, but really she had already planned for her placement. When Angela and Pamela arrived at her hospital, they took new profiles for her to look through and she chose us (Hurray!!!). Now, we still had the ultimate right of refusal, and it was a bit scary seeing some of the numbers we were sent because there was no insurance. But after much discussion, looking again at the finances, etc., we decided that this case was a good fit. It was the upper end of what we could "afford" and the upper end of any example they might give you.

So, a late-night trip to the mall for carseat, carrier and a few clothes, a short night's sleep, and a six-hour drive (we live in Lubbock), we were at Abrazo's door with check in hand and hearts full of anticipation. Our son spent one night with the wonderful couple that Abrazo uses for foster care. Gloria and Hugo are a great blessing and she gave me, a first-time mother with very little baby experience, lots of information based on her one night with Samuel and many years of fostering and parenting. Some of our family joined us in San Antonio for the placement, too, so that was great.

Regarding the check in hand, that was our one negligent area (besides the nursery decoration which is still not complete--beautiful cloth sitting bundled up in the corner). Robert had been planning to move money from some IRA-type stuff to a more accessible account, but hadn't gotten around to it. We had several friends who offered to front us cash for the part of our total that we didn't have to hand. We also looked at getting a very short-term loan early Tuesday morning before heading out, but ultimately, my grandfather had funds transferred to us to cover our oversight and we just repayed him as soon as Robert could move the money. So, when people tell you to get ready, they mean in everywhere, because Abrazo doesn't take credit cards ;-).

In our orientation group, two were in-state and three out. All five of us matched and took placement within 5 months. We were second to take placement at almost 2 months after orientation. We never spoke to any birthmothers. In fact, we had gotten kinda antsy about that because everyone else had. I had sweated blood over our profile and was starting to take it kind of personally. Then Angela called at 3 pm on a Monday afternoon while we were in the middle of making and canning salsa. She had our son in the car with her. Heart stopped. Amazing.

The rest is history. On a side note, because of the manner in which our insurance works, Samuel is actually covered two days before we took placement (coverage begins on Sundays), so if I can get my butt in gear, we may be able to recoup a little of our medical costs (they were quite high by Abrazo's standards). Kelly had negotiated them down quite a bit by offering cash on the barrel, but it won't hurt to find out if we can get some more of the costs covered. The more money we recoup (like the $10K child tax credit) now, the more quickly we can give Samuel a brother or sister. My husband is pretty much a financial whiz, so he's already rebuilding our reserves in anticipation of our next adoption. Probably start the process Summer of 2005. (BTW, we sent in our inquiry in late May, began the application and got it in to attend orientation in August and were parents by early October. Can't complain about that timeline. We have friends who began the process around the same time with a different kind of agency (facilitator) and are still waiting. They did match but disrupted because the birthmother who had three boys found out that at least one of her twins was a girl.)

Regarding the child income tax credit, it really is a credit. In general, you take it the year in which you finalize, so for us, it is the year after we paid our actual costs. (placed Oct 7, finalized June 18) If you do not owe the federal government $10K in taxes in that year, the excess is rolled into the next year, then the next, up to five years (I think) until you've used it all up. I'm not sure how any of that works with a disruption. I would have to ask my husband who is blissfully asleep. (I have a sinus infection and can't sleep for some reason)

So, that's a long post to say: you'd be amazed at what you can "afford"; don't assume that birthmothers are the only cause for disruption; and get ready if you sign up with Abrazo.

The reason there are so many Baby announcements on this forum is because Abrazo has a wonderful working relationship with birthmothers. Because of the resources Abrazo has to offer, I think disruptions are probably less likely. The counseling they offer really helps solidify the decisions of the birthmothers who take part, I think. Even then, it is hard to fully comprehend the sacrifice that is to be made until you hold that baby in your arms, therefore the 48 hour waiting period before relinquishment. Abrazo will also try to keep you informed on how they feel things are going. It's in everyone's interest for there to be open, honest communication and expectations. Abrazo is good at that. There are several active birthmothers on the forum, they might speek to that to help you understand and be more comfortable.

Well, that's all my cents-worth. I might actually be able to go back to sleep now (4:05 am).

Blessings and Hopes to you as you decide whether to get on this wonderful rollercoaster again,

Christina

[linlacor]

Wow Christina - lots of really great info - I hadn't realized much of that with regard to your case. Thanks for posting your personal experience as well - I know when I first started reading the forum (before we even contacted Abrazo) - those personal experience posts about what really happens were gold to me - those were the ones I liked the best. Two big things I wanted to know - how much will this cost and how long will it take.

Christina's post reminded me of a few things I left out in my posts (can you believe after my rambling and rambling and rambling novels that I omitted something?)

Kayleigh's adoption was also on the high end of what an adoption through Abrazo typically costs (mainly because it was a private pay case (i.e. no insurance, no medicaid). Kayleigh's time in the NICU was no small thing either. Anyway, my point to this part is just to emphasize to you to understand from your insurance company at what point insurance coverage kicks in for your baby - what triggers that. In Christina's case - it was 2 days before placement (how wonderful!). In our case, it didn't kick in until placement - so we were responsible for Kayleigh's hospital bills from 12/5 - 12/8 (I believe Kayleigh was admitted to the NICU on 12/6 - just to give you an idea of what NICU runs per day - Kayleigh was relatively healthy compared to the other babies in there, requiring just some antibiotics - she had a couple of CAT Scans and she may have had an MRI (all of that is so minor compared to what most babies in NICU are going through). Anyway, her NICU stay was over $1000 per day - I don't remember exactly but it seems like her NICU/medical bills were in the range of $5000 (including our co-pays after insurance kicked in but before amazing Kelly negotiated them down for us as well (for which among so many other things that I'll forever be grateful (this is the kind of thing I'm meaning when I say just how wonderful and how amazing and how much integrity Abrazo has - they make no guarantees about the outcome but they give 200% effort to ensure that everyone's best interests are looked after)).

And about having the funds in an easily accessible account - you're right on with that Christina. Fortunately, our $$ was in a Money Market account so it was really easy to transfer it to our checking account to cover the check we gave Abrazo at the time of Kayleigh's placement (the way it works is you give Abrazo a check for 50% of their fee (so roughly $4750) within xx? days after you finish the Orientation (so - if you have doubts about whether to do this or not, resolve them before you attend Orientation because once you attend Orientation, you're either in or out - Orientation is a big step - it's not just something you do to gather more information - attending Orientation means you're basically ready and willing to commit to this - it's better to hold off on going to Orientation if you're not sure and go to one when you're 100% ready) - then, upon placement - you will need to provide Abrazo with another check for the other half of their fee (as well as a check to cover whatever they've estimated the case-specific costs are that you haven't already covered). So - be ready and be prepared with what you expect your adoption will cost because I'm telling you, when that call comes - you DO NOT want to be worrying about how to pay for it - you have too many other things on your mind to be concerned with that (and that's a pretty big concern for someone to have at that time)...so, another thing to be sure to take care of when going through your check-list of being ready.

-Lisa

Edited June 28, 2004 by linlacor

[cgrace]

More great info from Lisa, (who was up way too early or way too late)

I'll just add this. The first fee payment is due to Abrazo 10 days after receiving your acceptance to work with Abrazo (which is Day 2 of orientation, so usually by Tuesday a week and a half later).

Also at that time, you will give Abrazo a check for $3000 that goes into escrow. This is where your case specific costs will come out of--if you match with an expecting mom, there might be doctor's bills, travel costs for her or staff, housing costs if she stays in Abrazo housing, Legal fees for her relinquishment, termination of father's rights if necessary, etc. If you're like us and don't match, they still figure that money into the final bill. They always take one chunk of administrative costs out of it at the beginning and then it sits there until your case starts using money. For us, because there were no up-front case costs, Abrazo did use some of that money to offer our birthmother some help after she placed Samuel. I think for 5 or 6 weeks. I would have to look at our monthly statements to be sure. Abrazo's support of birthmothers is very reasonable, i.e., no one can make a living off being pregnant and placing children, but not so low that it is unreasonable or unhelpful for the birthmother. (I'm not trying to offend anyone. I know that birthmothers are not trying to "get rich" providing other couples with babies. I just remember Elizabeth talking about the financial support offered by some other agencies which was way more than Robert and I earned in a week in our first 3 years of marriage.) They also tapped into that fund for overnight mailing some of our post-placement letters and pictures to our birthmother. Now that we've finalized, we've sent a copy of the adoption decree and they will close out our account and return anything still in there to us. It's not much, but I think they have managed it very wisely.

Well, Samuel's ready for breakfast.

Christina

[linlacor]

Christina - on me being up too early....my darling sweet princess decided 3:30am was an appropriate time to wake up today - she laid in bed with me for an hour kicking me and squealing in delight because the kitty cats thought it was great fun for someone to be up at that time of the morning and were doing all sorts of jumping tricks on and off the bed (Lance moved to a different bed after being kicked the 10th or 15th time - we lost count) (she started off in her bed but when she woke up, I moved her in the bed with us). Finally, around 4:30 - she decided it was time to get Mommy out of bed so she opened our door and took off running down the hall saying "Mom" over and over again.

We're going to "Roller Stroller" today with some friends (my first time - this skating rink nearby has this thing where from 10:30 - 12:30pm on Mondays & Tuesdays the rink is only open to those pushing a stroller - and they play music from the 80s & 90s - my friends said it's a blast (& pretty funny too!) and talked me into it last night at our "Mom's Night Out" thing I arranged at a teahouse (which was lots of fun!). Anyway - I'm thinking I won't be "rolling" too well today - I'm beat! Kayleigh on the other hand fell asleep promptly upon going downstairs so she's had a nice little 2 hour nap and is ready for the day.

Aahhh......motherhood! (But I wouldn't trade it for ANYTHING!!!)

[cgrace]

Is this a contest?

I walk away from the computer and Lisa, you post another reply. I can't keep up with you, so I'm sure you'll do fine today with Kayleigh and the Roller Stroller crew. How long since you roller skated? I would be one big batch of bruises by the time I finished, I daresay.

See all the fun you have to look forward to, Sammy!?!

The reason I'm sick is that my immune system got weakened by 5 or 6 nights of Samuel pretty much not sleeping except on one of us in the recliner. It started while we were in SA for finalization and continued after we got back until about Thursday or Friday (It's all a blur, now). I'm a person for whom sleep is a definite requirement, so God blessed me with a baby who slept through the night (10 hour-nights) at about 1-month of age. So, this upset to my nightly routine came as quite a shock and laid me open to viral or bacterial attack, the nasty little buggers.

So, I'm sick which makes being Mommy a little harder. Robert has been off since Friday, so he's picked up a lot of my slack, thank goodness. Still, I'm ready to be well and useful. We leave for Missouri and Robert's parent's tomorrow, so I'd really like my fever to go away. It's hovering at 99. I'm sure this is viral and that they can't give me anything for it. I feel better today than I did yesterday, but I have lots to do today, so we'll see how I feel later.

Sammy, I hope we've answered some of your questions and if you have more, please post. There are lots of helpful folk on the forum who love to share their experiences and advice.

Christina

[linlacor]

I think it's been about 25 years since I had a pair of skates on - I don't have high expectations - I'm hoping the stroller will brace me - if nothing else, will provide a good laugh for my friends - (who also ALMOST talked me into doing this triathlon in August (4 mile run, 1/4 mile swim, & 14 mile bike ride).....hello - I'm like 80+ pounds overweight - do NOT exercise (hence, the conversation last night about me doing the triathlon with them - I mentioned that I think if I had a "goal" to work toward, like a 5K or 10K or climbing a mountain or something that I'd be much more motivated to get into shape and exercise...that exercising for the sake of exercising is just really not something I can get motivated to do (not that I don't want to get fit/lose weight - but I keep procrastinating)...anyway - one of my friends is quite the optimist and had me convinced I could do this with them - no big deal (6 weeks away) - I would do it but since I'll be in Texas for the next 3 1/2 weeks (leaving me only a couple of weeks to prepare for it and I'd be starting at ground zero) - I opted to wait this one out (or am I just making excuses? I like to think I'm just being realistic)

Anyway - sorry Sammy for digressing so much on your post - guess I should have messaged Christina rather than putting all this here...

Okay - last post today (or at least this morning) - must go get ready for Roller Stroller.

Lisa

ps hope you feel better soon Christina - being sick is a bummer - I got some mess about 2 weeks ago and still have a cough that is lingering (but at least I feel good - I hate feeling sick - no time for that, ya know?)

Edited June 28, 2004 by linlacor

[Sammy]

thanks so much to both of you...this is VERY helpful information....I also posted another question under the Rainbow Families section (I think that's what it's called) If either of you have any insight on that topic Re: us being Anglo and possibly adopting a full Hispanic baby...

Thanks again for your help

P.S. Lisa, good luck on the exercising....I keep myself motivated everyday by taping my favorite TV shows on the VCR that I don't have time to watch....and then I reward myself with time to watch them while walking on my Treadmill...it's great...I exercise and have my tv/vcr right there with my favorite shows...helps me forget i'm exercising and i get to fast forward thru the commercials....just a thought...

thanks again

[linlacor]

I hope you get some good feedback from people on your post under Rainbow families (I'm sure you will).

As I mentioned, we live in Washington state and there are a HUGE number of International adoptions done here - so although we have a very small Hispanic population - I would say we have a very large International population here (and it's also a much, much, much more liberal state than Texas is) so at least here, blended families (I guess that's the term?) never even get a second glance (just to give you an idea of how liberal & open-minded it is here - in our Seattle Child Magazine - there is usually a thing in there from the Lesbian & Gay parenting association who has a weekly playgroup for children and their parents. It's really a great place for many reasons (I love living here) but especially from the perspective that it doesn't matter how "different" your family looks - noone thinks anything about it or says anything about it - which I'm sure makes life much easier on the children of non-traditional families and children with parents who are a different color/heritage than them.

[Guest Adoptive Dad]

Just to address the gray area regarding the Adoption Tax Credit and Disrupted Adoptions, I've attached the following link for additional info on the subject.

It does mention in the code that you do NOT have to finalize to be eligible for the credit (i.e. disrupted match). This link also includes Form W-7A, which is submitted to request a Taxpayer Identification Number to be used in lieu of a SSN for tax deduction purposes until a SSN is in place.

Adoption Tax Credit Info

[Sammy]

this is great info. thanks so much for the link....I knew about the tax credit but didn't know the details....i really appreciate your help!

[cgrace]

Thanks Adoptive Dad!

I wasn't sure about the rules, as I left those details to Robert as they aren't really my "thing".

The Taxpayer ID number is an essential bit of information that we were aware of ahead of time, but the others in my group found themselves needing desperately at tax time. We had already applied for one before with our son who was born prematurely and died two days later, so were familiar with the process. I found at tax time, the forum was full of parents caught unprepared for lack of SSN or ID number. I'm sure there were lots of extensions filed. Of course, every situation is different, with some birthfamilies having custody of children longer than adoptive families and therefore getting the child tax credit (not adoption credit, just the deduction stuff), but being aware of all the tax requirements and deduction possibilities is a responsible thing to do.

Sammy, I'll go over to the Rainbow families posts and leave another post there re: interracial adoption. Our son is full Hispanic and though both dark-haired, my husband and I are definitely of Anglo-Saxon heritage (we do genealogy as a hobby).

Christina

[linlacor]

 I'm not sure if I'm posting mine correctly or not.  My topic falls in line w/Opus' topic as we're new to the adoption process & have lots of questions.  I've completed the pre-application & will be sending it off soon so hopefully, we'll hear something as soon as you did Opus.  I noticed there were some birthmothers who also read & respond to some of the posts here.  I have a couple of questions. #1 - I am about 60 pounds overweight.  I'm currently working with a personal trainer to develop a healthier lifestyle (I don't have any medical issues from my weight) & I'm sooo worried about the pictures.  Part of me is so ready to get started & part of me wants to wait until I look better to do this.  Thoughts???  Also - 13 1/2 yrs ago, I placed a baby girl for adoption (unfortunately, the agency I placed with only offered closed adoptions at that time - I was 17 & in 1989, it just didn't seem like open adoptions were as prevalent as they are now or maybe I just didn't know enough back then).  Anyway - I wonder how this will affect how a birthmother views me?

Thanks!

Wow!! What a difference 2 years makes!

As I was posting my family photo to my profile this morning (great feature webmaster - I LOVE looking at all the Abrazo families too!!), I noticed that today marks the 2 year anniversary of when I first joined the Abrazo Forum - so I found my first post and just thought I'd revive it.

To be honest - 2 years ago today, I had NO IDEA I'd be the mom of a toddler - I really thought I'd still be waiting for our dream to come true. I had so many questions then (as you can tell if you read through my millions of posts early on).

Thanks Abrazo for having this forum - it was and is a fabulous thing for me (and mostly - thanks for being Abrazo because without you, we would have never known our precious Kayleigh and she is the best thing that ever happened to us).

-Lisa

[Guest Pamela]

Happy Anniversary Lisa,

it feels good doesn't it. Funny how those old worries just didn't seem to amount to much!!

pkk

[Guest Joanne]

I am new to the adoption scence. We have a 3 yr old and have been trying to conceive our 2nd for 2 yrs and have decided to turn to adoption. I am very excited about finding this site and reading about how quickly Abrazo seems to place infants. The only problem is funding. How did all you adoptive parents afford to adopt. Did you save up? I'm so afraid that it is going to take us forever to save up to adopt. Our hearts and our home is ready for another child. Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has to offer.

[Guest Pamela]

Joanne,

welcome to the wonderful world of Abrazo where it's never a matter of "if" just "when". The concerns about money need not be overwhelming. Adoption at Abrazo is affordable for most families. That does not mean you don't have to prepare. On your road to adoption, which may be long or short, you can start today to prepare for the financial commitment just like you start preparing in other ways to welcome a new little one.

There are numerous financial ways. Here are some I have heard:

1. some people approach their family and friends for assistance. This isn't an option for some but there are frequently familys who are very supportive and willing to help financially.

2. some people get a temporary second job during the time they are planning and preparing for adoption

3. some have sold some items of value, a second or third car, a piece of antique furniture, a inherited piece of property, something they value less than having a child

4. some have borrowed money from family or friends

5. some have borrowed money from the bank or through a low interest credit card

6. some have adopted a very thrifty lifestyle for a short period of time just to save

7. some have put off the purchase of a much needed new car and done a lot of praying

Whatever you do, or how ever many ways you do it, you have the ability to make your dream come true. People often ask me (sometimes family, friends, or just plain strangers!!) "how much did it cost" to adopt your son. I am often offended by this question and both my husband and I refuse to discuss the finances of our adoptions with any one. The question makes it sound like someone wants to know how much you paid for that new car, or that new stero system, etc. So, I usually answer with this type of response. I say, "you know adoption is very affordable. Many people think it is beyond their abiltiy to finance but really once you decide that's what you want to do, it is amazing how things start to come together!"

Good luck to you in your journey. And do ask questions of each adoption agency in regards to their fees and financial plans and assistance programs. It's okay to ask these very specific questions as you start to make your plan for adoption.

pkk

[FeelingBlessed]

Joanne -- You might check out the thread "Financing an Adoption" in this same category ("Looking to Adopt"). There are some ideas there as well ...

[Jen&Kyle]

Hello All,

I just wanted to take a minute to introduce ourselfs. I am Jennifer and am married to Kyle. We live in Harker Heights, Texas. Kyle works from home and I work for the local Army hospital. We have a daughter who is 14 now. We want to have another child but can not do it on our own. We have read such great things about Abrazo and decided to go with them, hopefully they will go with us too We are brand new to this whole process. We just mailed our pre-inquiry form today. I don't know when we will here back or what we will need to start to gather but ANY infomation you can provide would be great. How long should we realistically expect in terms of applications, invitaions and anything else? We want to prepare for as much as we can now. If anyone can tell us what to do in the meantime that would be great. Kyle and I are going to start going through important paperwork and make copies...but what should we be getting together. We are also want to work on the pictures and story of us but what are we trying to put together? Well as you can tell we are just starting out. Thanks so much and God bless.

Jennifer and Kyle

[MarceloandClaudia]

Jen and Kyle,

Welcome to Abrazo Land. I replied to your message. Hope the info helps. Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

Until next time,

Claudia

[MomtoSami]

Hello, my name is Susan and I am new to the list. My husband and I have a daughter who will be 3 in January adopted from Guatemala. I did not know where to post to ask some questions and I saw where some of the groups are not as active as others so I thought I would start here.

I was wanting to find out more about domestic adoption, we are talking about adopting again and are checking into things. We wanted to go back to Guatemala but I started researching and came across Abrazo agency and it sounds like an agency we'd be interested in. I wanted to know if there is more stuff that needs to be done other than the home study as far as other paper work for domestic adoption. We are trying to see about the money. I know with international you have a lot more things to do on the US side here, finger prints, 171, etc... We live in NC as well so I am not sure yet what they require. Like I said we are in the talking stage and checking things out right now.

I love reading everyone's stories and post and seeing how things work out. We are doing a lot of praying and just asking God to work it all out for us.

Thanks for any info you can offer, Susan Y