Adam & Beth

Congratulations to all the new Abrazo built families! May Peace and Blessings be with you all, Adam

Congratulations Mark (and Erin)! I understand the anticipation and excitement. That is natural and a great feeling. You are taking the next step towards creating the family you have dreamed about. So, Take your time filling it out (within reason of course) as some of those questions can be thought provoking and may have you thinking just a bit deeper on a subject (or perhaps you've already addressed every possible option and you know exactly what you want to say in the application). I think I remember my hand cramping a few times to get it all down on paper Ah, good times If you are accepted to an Abrazo Orientation group, it'll be a great way to find out if Abrazo is right for you and you right for their program and then you'll be on your way to being a larger family before you know it! Abrazo Orientation is a fantastic weekend which will have you forming lifelong friendships and will give you a great introduction into what Open adoption is and should be There may be a few surprises that weekend too Whatever the outcome, may your journey to parenthood be blessed... Best wishes to you both, Adam

Sorry, I just saw the P.S. She is indeed. Beth commented the other day "When we are finalized, I'm really going to miss our meetings with Kay" We'll probably run into her anyway as Trina, the Director of the agency she is working with, is a good friend of ours We may even run into Kay next weekend at a baby shower we were mutually invited too.

Hi Mark, There is a topic addressing your specific question. Click this link: FINANCING AN ADOPTION for details and feel free to post in it if you have additional questions, comments, etc. This forum has a wealth of knowledge and if you can't find it, do just as you did and post a question. Someone is bound to know where it is or have some insight or experience. Good luck to you! -Adam

Mark, Welcome to the Forum! It's nice to have more guys posting around here We look forward to getting to know you better and following you and your wife's adoption journey. Best wishes to you both, Adam

Happy to help and Thank You for raising such a good question. It might be applicable to many Abrazo families who could potentially be Againers one day.

Melissa, I did speak with our social worker today, and used myself as an example if we were to adopt again in a few years. (I told her the scenario and that I would share her information as an unofficial statement, but she said, it should be fine as she feels comfortable in her information) Our social worker is a licensed TN Social Worker and an Abrazo mother . Hope that helps. But, just to play it safe, I still suggest clearing it with the agency/social worker that will be doing your update & post placement visits. Good Luck, Adam

Makes perfect sense to me and I'd like to know the answer too as if we do look at adopting again someday, we may be in the same scenario. I'll be talking to our TN social worker this week and will see if I can ask her the question to get her perspective. Thanks, Adam

We have a somewhat similar scenario as Beth too works on Sundays. At our house Sundays are "Daddy's Day" as Beth works full time as the church Youth Director (kids ages 12-18). She works from 8 am to 8 pm on Sundays. Busy day! Sunday is my day to make sure he gets fed, dressed for church, gets to the nursery on time so I can get to Sunday School and service, etc. etc..etc... During the week we split duties pretty well, but Beth always has more time with him on weekdays as he attends PDO (Parents Day Out) at our church so he goes to and from work with her. She has him in her office from 2-5 pm each day. When Nathan turns 2, he will start attending service with us regularly instead of being in the nursery. Another nice perk will be that when he turns 2, he can attend full time Day School at our church so Beth can have the full work day to get things done and be one building away from him at all times if she wants to check in on him While working for a church doesn't pay well, we do get a reduced rate for the Day School so that will help. Nathan is only 7 months old right now, so I've still got a little while before he's out of the church nursery. We've got a great children's program at our church too so he'll be in good hands when he exits the nursery. We hope to finalize our adoption in the coming months and then have Nathan baptised. It will be a very special occassion (both Finalization and Baptism). Beth said she was at a small shop the other day that sold baptismal gowns. One of them was over $500! Nathan won't be sporting anything like that, especially for a 1 time wear outfit Hopefully we can just borrow one from a friend or find an inexpensive one on Ebay. -Adam

6?! WOW! Now that is an instant family! I know I used to want a bunch of children like my parents had (4), but life sometimes turns out differently than you expected. We are blessed with our son and aren't even 100% positive there will be a second child in our future. Wishing these dear children all the best and hoping that a special family can keep them all united...soon. Peace be with them, Adam

That is cool and good news to those with children who may wish to grow their family further through Abrazo. I too like the way you phrased it ... "birthfamilies are as varied as those seeking to adopt".

Welcome Erin & James. Just as a note, I concur with Andrea's post about "statistically speaking", but I can tell you that we had one birthmother we really liked and who liked us (and one other couple) and she selected the other couple because she wanted a gaurantee that her child would have a sibling. At least that was one major point of consideration. Though it was our intent to have more than 1 child in the future, we could not gaurantee it. But, We believe we were placed with the child God intended for us so all is good. Just a note that in some cases, birthmothers may actually want to place their child with a family w/children over a childless couple. Good luck! -A

My apologies Linda

Hi Linda, There is another thread I believe that addresses this topic (so a moderator might move it if they locate it) but I can't remember which one it is. Anyway, it is good that you share the info because you are right, it is good that we are working with a licensed and reputable agency (Abrazo) as unfortunately, there are a lot of things out there that are not on the 'up-and-up'. Thank you for sharing the story though -A

Merely my thoughts here, but I don't think that putting earnings from these sales towards adoption is at all inappropriate. Adoption is a an expensive process. That is a reality and finding "acceptable" ways to finance it is certainly understandable. The worry about being self-sufficient and being humble is understandable too. We feel the same way. Now, as for the guilt trip, I personally feel that any type of product party carries with it the obligation to purchase something. Do you 'have' to make a purchase? No. Is it more or less expected of the guests? Yes (in my opinion) or at least the guest feels that way. My saying this though is not to discourage you from having the party. I think it is a nice way to raise additional funds to help with the financial burden of adoption. It is a win-win. You get financial assistance, and the guest gets both a quality product (like Pampered Chef - we have tons of that stuff) and the added benefit of knowing they helped, in some small way, unite a family through adoption . As a guy, I've never attended a Pampered Chef party, or any product party for that matter, but I know both my wife and I have purchased many things from the parties she's attended or that we've been invited to. I would prefer to know that my purchasing something at one of these parties is helping a friend achieve their goal of adopting a child. That is a great cause (one near and dear to my own heart obviously) and would actually make me want to buy more stuff than I would at regular party of the same type. It would help me justify "do I Need more of this stuff?" as well (no offense to those who sell it as most of the Pampered Chef stuff we've bought really is high quality). Whew, good thing they don't have hardware parties (I've probably got more drills than one guy should own.... ) So, I suggest you let the parties go on Good luck. -Adam

It's nice to see the new mommy posting! I'm so happy for you guys. -A

Hi Melissa, Welcome to the forum! Thank you for sharing your story with us and we wish you all the best as you endeavor to grow your family through adoption. The forum is full of folks who have unique stories as well and everyone here can relate to challenges that we have faced to have children. So, please know you are in good company with understanding people. The good news is, the open adoption process works and if Abrazo is the right fit for you, and vice-versa, you could be on your way to being a new mommy very soon Peace be with you, Adam

Thanks! I didn't know you were an It guy (now I'm scared! ). What do you do? Hi Jay. No need to be scared, that's for sure. It sounds like you have a full IT plate at work. I work in the IT department at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. I basically find & implement software solutions for various areas of the hospital. I do the Project Management, Implementation, and Support of those systems as well so our Applications team "own the process from cradle to grave". Not a programmer or anything. I leave that stuff to people like my older brother (developer for Microsoft). -Adam

From one IT guy to another, CONGRATULATIONS!

Brian and Cathy, Congratulations on the newest Pink member of the family -Adam, Beth, & Nathan

Very good post Karen. You have a gift of being able to express your views well through your posts. Lots of rhetorical questions in here, but ones that too could be shared. Very true. Nor do I. Education, soul searching, and keeping an open mind I believe are the best ways to overcome the imperfections but I don't believe anyone ever overcomes all their imperfections. Speaking for myself, I believe so. Provided I have made a conscious effort to understand the decision I am about to make, I believe I will choose the best decision (whether that be one that benefits me or making a decision that benefits others more than myself). Another rhetorical question: Or should there be guilt if someone suggests that someone else should adopt a child when they themselves may be in a position to provide that child a loving home? From a guilt perspective, It can be like seeing an advertisement for children in need or reading a touching, compassionate story and saying "someone should help those kids". Guilt is a heavy emotion and a strong motivating factor. While guilt can play a factor in adopting or placing, I would hope it is not the motivating factor.

When you adopt from the State, for example, you pay only the homestudy cost and the legal costs of termination/adoption, but no agency fees, per se. Money is NOT a big part of that adoption process, but flexibility of parental preference surely is. (Supply/demand, indeed) Yes, I went back and edited that part apparently at the same time you were responding because I agree the wording "big part of the process" was not accurate or fair. In some cases it can be, but certainly not always. Rather than say it is a big part of the process, my intention is to say it can often be a major part of the consideration as to whether or not someone can 'afford' to participate in some adoption processes. It then boils down to debate as to what is 'affordable'.

To me, it doesn't make me squirmish. It makes me frustrated. Not at Abrazo, but at the fact there is a cost to adopt. Abrazo performs adoption services. In order to provide a service, Abrazo has to operate. Without someone funding their operations, they could not perform the service. Without the service, I would not have my son, Nathan. I made the decision of if the fees being chared were acceptable to achieve my goal. My goal: to become a parent and share all the love I have to give a child. So, I understand why the fees exist and why many fees must be passed on to the client, I just hate that because a couple cannot conceive a biological child, they must pay for the priviledge of being parents. It would be nice if Love was the only requirement, but in reality, we know that money is a big part of the adoption process. The bond between the parent and child is Love. But the process used to adopt the child is generally ecomonics. Supply and demand. It would take me a novel to cover all the areas for debate on this, but above is just my 2 cents on my perception. I'm not trying to imply that Abrazo is in it for the money. I'm just saying they have to charge to provide a service that they feel a calling for. To bring potential parents in contact with children in need of a stable, loving home. Abrazo has taken on the addition steps to make it the best relationship possible by kindling Open Adoption relationships. I am grateful for them bringing Nathan's birthmother into our lives. Do I wish the process did not have fees? Sure. But that would not be realistic. -A

Congrats to the Wanna Ohanna family on their newest addition!

Another incentivized choice in adoption is the AAP ( adoption assistance program) - This program was created to encourage the adoption of foster kids. And while we're on the subject, what about that $10,500 adoption tax credit that adoptive families in America can get, just for adopting a healthy newborn of any race? The funny thing us, if firstmothers were offered an equivalent tax credit for placing, we'd call it "inducement" and that would be considered a bad thing, wouldn't it?? (But when the shoe is on the other foot, well, ...?) Is it really the same thing though? You get the tax credit up to $10,500 for adoption expenses paid. If you only pay $8000, you only get a credit of $8000. Since first parents don't generally incur financial expenses when placing a child (at least that I'm aware of), giving them a tax credit for placing is "inducement." Isn't it? This may be more applicable for the "Adoption Tax Credit" thread, but since it has been brought up within this thread... And then there is the criteria about a failed adoption in relation to the credit. Failed Adoption....a very unfortunate event but one that happens about what... 20% of the time? ( I think we were told at Orientation only 4 out of every 5 adoptions domestically are successful). While it's nice to be able to recoop some of the lost expenses during that failed adoption, it offsets the available credit if you should be fortunate enough (as we were) to have a successful adoption thereafter. Since you can't claim that credit for a while, the funds lost during a failed adoption could jeapordize your ability to fund a successful adoption the same year. I know that was almost our case. The funds we lost in our "long" match put us in a spot, financially, where we did not know if we would have enough to cover the applicable fees of the successful one. Fees during an adoption are due "immediately". Sure you may get some money back at a later date (the next year when filing taxes for the previous year), but that can be a ways off. Again, it's nice to have the credit, but, depending on when the baby is born and when you will actually finalize the adoption, you really can't count on it helping you financially for a while. Sometimes it can be over a year before you will get any of the credit.