linlacor

Hi there, just a quick response which doesn't really answer your question but I think you'll probably hear something back on your question quicker if you call Abrazo 210-342-5683 and see what they say??? (P.S. Glad to see another new member on the forum!!! Yay!!! Big welcome!!!)

Hi Heidi, Okay, here's what I feel with regard to your question/thinking out loud. We (Lance & I) have had many discussions about this very issue - in fact, Lance was quite reluctant to add another child to our family until recently and in part, it was due to his fear of Kayleigh's feelings about another child, including "what if our next child's birthparents are a part of our lives (directly) and how will that make Kayleigh feel?" We never discussed doing a closed or semi-open adoption (because he knew better than to ever even bring that up with me - it's non-negotiable for me) but we did discuss just stopping at one. Also, we had our homestudy update interview a couple of weekends ago and had to re-visit that question because it was one that our caseworker raised - how will we feel/handle it if our next adoption involves contact with the birthparents and Kayleigh's remains as it currently is (and, being the wonderful Social Worker he is (have I mentioned how much I like our caseworker this time??? He's just great), he had some ideas of how he's seen other families deal with this and shared those with us). Okay, first thing I realized when Lance and I began discussing this (about 2 1/2 yrs ago) was that Kayleigh's lack of contact with her birthmother (birthfather is unknown so that's just a completely different topic altogether that I'm not going to address here for the sake of keeping my thoughts on track) and how that may make her feel when she's old enough to begin to understand what that means to her and her needs is something that belongs to Kayleigh and it will exist (that is, if it's something that's going to be an issue for her) whether we have another child who does have contact with their birthparents or not - Kayleigh will still experience the same amount of grief, loss, & missing out regardless of how our next adoption plays out. This is something that we, as parents, have accepted that we have no control over this - we can't force someone to be involved in our lives and our child's life who isn't ready or may never be ready for that - all we can do is to do the best we know how in making Kayleigh feel secure in the fact that her birthmother thinks of her often, loves her a great deal, wants her to be happy, and is happy that she is our child, etc etc etc (and I do believe in my heart, all of those things except it would be nice to hear them come directly from Kayleigh's birthmother) and we can do the best we know how at keeping that line of communication open at all times - just in case that day comes. I feel like I've made it as clear as I could to Kayleigh's birthmother that even if she decides 20 years from now that the time is right for her, we will still be here, with open arms - nothing (and I truly mean NOTHING) could change that. Also, I hope I made it clear to her that all I care about is that she be a part of our lives - I don't care who she is, what she stands for, what she's done, what she's thought or thought about doing - an unconditional invitation to be a part of our lives is there. (okay, one exception - if there is some threat of violence/abuse toward us or our child(ren), then I would have to consider a less direct means of contact). Okay, back on track - anyway - so, when I realized that (and helped Lance realize that), I felt more at peace about whatever our next adoption entails, including a very open adoption. I feel as prepared as any parent could to address any concerns that this could raise with Kayleigh in the most loving, honest, and supportive means possible. I can't take away Kayleigh's pain/grief - but I can comfort her and empathize with her and feel that pain as well (and I actually, feel I do feel that pain). It's hard because a parental instinct (I think) is to protect our children from harm - and so, it's a natural reaction/response to do what we feel protects our child - whether we give that enough thought beforehand or not - we just act on instinct. I think the reality of adoption is that it is not at all like raising a biological child (although that's not to say that biological parents don't go through similar things with their children - what about when a bio-parent dies? The other bio-parent is left to comfort and empathize with their child as they grieve the loss of the deceased parent, I can think of lots of examples like this, where noone wants to sign up to deal with pain/grief but life happens and there is an element of reality that goes along with it)....anyway, I feel a premise of adoption is to do with loss - in order for a chlid to be adopted, a loss takes place - the loss of being parented by their biological parent and that can wreak havoc on how a child sees the situation that led to their story of how they came to be a part of this world - I'm not saying that birthparents are rejecting their child (far from it - I just hope I someday get to explain all this to my own birth-daughter so just in case she has experienced any feelings of rejection, I can assure her that yes, while I made the decision not to parent her, it had nothing to do about her but everything to do about what I believed (as her parent) was in her best interests at that point in time - okay, again - I'm digressing)...anyway - hopefully, one of the benefits in open adoption is that the pain associated with feeling the loss is lessened to some degree because the child (and the birthparent) can provide one another with the reassurances they need as time goes on (the birthparent is reassured that they made the best decision at that time by seeing how happy and loved and secure their child is with their parents and seeing them thrive and the child is reassured by the stories their birthparents tell them about how they made the decision they did and why and also, to see that their birthparent is still a part of their lives which demonstrates the connection the birthparent feels with their biological child,e tc etc etc)...but, for various reasons, a bilateral (good term Heidi!) open adoption isn't always a reality and any adoptive parent who doesn't realize that they may be having to answer some tough and painful questions posed by their children is a parent who has some pretty unrealistic fantasies about their family - and sadly, just because some children don't feel they can ask those questions to their parents, doesn't mean they don't still have those questions (and again, I'm not saying that every adoptee feels the same way - and I don't know that it's necessarily anything that anyone does - I think how a child/adult adoptee processes the information that they're adopted is more of an inborn thing - but, it's been shown that it can and does exist and we (as adoptive parents) need to do a good job in preparing ourselves for that. Okay - not sure if I totally stayed on track there or not (imagine if I would have gone into the unknown birthfather schpill I have ). Anyway, I just wanted to close by saying that I think, a prerequisite to being comfortable with an open adoption (regardless of whether your first adoption is open or closed) is that you have to genuinely, in your heart believe in what is stated are the benefits of open adoption. If you're going into adoption and you go along with open adoption because all the experts say it's the best way to do things - but in your heart, you disagree (and "to disagree" is different from "to question") - then I don't care how many books you read, how many adoptive parents you meet who have successful open adoption stories, how many forums you participate in - if you don't buy into it, you just aren't going to get there and whether you know it or not, you will find yourself leaning in the direction of something other than open adoption - especially if you can think of a reason why open adoption wouldn't be "the best way". I have a friend - we met at a baby shower of a former neighbor of mine (back when I was desperately trying to get pregnant the old fashioned way and really didn't feel comfortable attending my neighbor's baby shower who started trying to get pregnant 6 months AFTER we did!) - she and a couple of other ladies were back in a corner near the food table while our friend was opening the gifts - I heard someone say "embryo" and my ears perked up and I asked if they were talking about infertility stuff and they were and one of them exchanged numbers with me as she was on her 3rd IVF (all unsuccessful) and I was months away from getting to start my 1st IVF and she said, call me, we'll have lunch and we'll talk. So - we did and she was the first person I ever met who could relate to how I felt about our infertility and all those people who seemed to effortlessly get pregnant without even trying. We bonded quite closely through our infertility experience. I was the first person she called when she told me they had decided to go the adoption route (she was the first person I called when I found out my 1st IVF didn't work) and I remember going over to her house when she finally brought that baby home whom she had been dreaming of for 6 years - and that was the first time I ever genuinely felt happy for someone who was becoming a first time parent since we had embarked upon our infertility journey. My friend however, just doesn't feel open adoption in her heart - I honestly think she still struggles with their infertility - she hasn't quite let it go and says even after all these years (her first child is now 4 1/2 yrs old), she and her husband still make sure to know when she's ovulating - just in case..... (I find that sad)) Anyway, we can not talk about adoption - we have such different views on it and I just get so upset and frustrated by her thoughts and feelings on it that we just can't go there - we can talk about our kids, what they're doing, our husbands and their job security (or insecurity), our weight struggles, our party days when we were much younger, books - you name it - we are like long lost sisters but we can't talk about adoption and it's had quite an effect on our relationship although neither of us will admit it to one another. She doesn't understand me and I don't understand her. I don't want to change her - I'll leave that to her children when they're all grown up (she receives pictures and letters from her 2nd child's birthmother on a regular basis and has told me she is keeping them safely tucked in the top of a closet to share with her child when they turn 18 because she doesn't ever want to upset her first child with this contact that her 2nd child's contact makes (because her first child's birthmother is MIA and due to some illegal things she did to the attorney of the adoption agency she placed through, she will likely never re-surface because it's a semi-open adoption and all contact has to made through the agency (neither adoption was through Abrazo, btw) - but anyway - she struggled with the same question after her first child's adoption - what if our next one wants contact.....and the only reason she didn't do a completely confidential, closed adoption the second time is because she wasn't able to locate an agency who would assure her that the adoption would be totally confidential (and also be within their adoption budget - I think you can get confidential adoptions these days but for a very high agency fee) so she just went back to the same agency she adopted from the first time (who do semi-open adoptions but claim they're "open" to attract birthmothers who believe they're getting one thing but in actuality, they end up with something else because all the while, the agency is saying something completely different to the adoptive parents - bad, bad agency!!! Shame on them! If I were the adoption police, I'd put that agency in adoption jail which would consist of being in a locked room with Elizabeth and then, when Elizabeth got tired, they'd have to listen to taped dialogues day and night of Elizabeth talking about open adoption and its benefits That would make me very happy!). So, that's my 2 cents!! (Can you tell Kayleigh is napping? Whew - that was quite the novel - wonder if anyone will get through all that?????) -Lisa (P.S. Sherri - thank you so much for your post - I am printing it off and keeping it with my "things to remember" file - very from the heart and very helpful. And Karen - oh my - well, you're my mentor for this very topic - I'm depending on you to guide me through this is we find ourselves with an open adoption this next time (wishful thinking!!!))

Hi Lisa, Just the quick search I did on topics by Againers, I found this one Againers, Difficult the Second Time Around/Second Time Around Problems but not sure it really addresses what you asked - it was under Parents In Waiting though - have you searched through those topics? You definitely seem to feel a great deal of empathy for your child's birthmother(s) - I think it takes a really special person to truly experience that sort of empathy - I think Abrazo does such a great job in finding those parents who feel that. I read your post with a realization - I always thought fear was typically "fear of the unknown" but when reading your post, I realized that your fear this time is centered around what you know - you experienced this and now, it is a concern (not in a bad way concern, just a "uh-oh - I know what this means to start this process again" Anyway, I also realized that my fear this time (this will be our 2nd adoption) is also to do with what we now know. My biggest fear (at least I think it's my biggest fear, it's the one I seem to think about the most) is what if we match with another birthmother who wants no contact and doesn't even want to meet us and doesn't even want to receive updates through Abrazo. I just don't know how I can emotionally deal with that again - it has been so hard for me - not that I want to see my child's birthmother in pain but I do want to be able to show her and reassure her that her child is beautiful and growing and thriving and happy and so loved - I think that's what every birthmother just wants to know - is their child happy and are they loved? I want so much to be able to share all that information with our child(ren)'s birthmother(s) and then, I want to be able to say with confidence to our child(ren) when they start asking - "of course we can call your birthmother and you can talk to her" or "of course you can write her a letter and she'll write you back" or "of course she can come to Camp Abrazo with us" or on and on and on. The fear of the day when Kayleigh asks me "why can't we see or talk to my birthmother?" and then explaining that to her and then seeing the look on her face and/or the pain in her eyes/heart when that happens (I mean, she may not feel pain or a sense of loss but what if she does? what parent wants to see their child hurt?) So, that's my fear this time - I just so much want to do this the open way - I need this for myself and for our children and for our birthmother. But then I know, I wouldn't turn down an opportunity to adopt a baby if it was another open/closed adoption (I have no idea what to call our adoption - it's open on our end but closed on the birthmother's end - someone needs to think of a name to describe these kind of adoptions because they are actually different from a real open adoption) because if I would have said no for that reason the first time, I would have never known my precious Kayleigh.... -Lisa

I whole-heartedly agree with Elizabeth here. I try very hard not to bring my pro-choice views onto the forum because I feel the forum is a place to talk about adoption, not whether or not abortion should or shouldn't be a choice available...but, speaking from personal experience as well - I've placed a baby for adoption, and I've terminated a pregnancy (after placing) and the pain and sense of loss I've felt for my daughter whom I placed is very real to me and a part of my daily life - I have not experienced any sense of loss or pain or regret for the pregnancy I terminated. For me, it was my best choice given my options at that time - which were parenting or terminating the pregnancy because I knew I could never again place another baby for adoption - I just didn't have the strength or whatever to go through with it again - it was much too painful...and at that point in my life (6 yrs after placing), I still was not a place where I was able to offer a child what I felt they deserved. So, at the risk of turning this into a pro-life/pro-choice debate, I just wanted to speak about my own personal experience and say that I am thankful it was a choice available to me at that time. -Lisa

Thanks for the tip Linda. -Lisa

P.S. Heidi (and others), have you checked out The Source for Everything Jewish? My friend gave me the link - they sell lots of Jewish stuff including toys & books for preschoolers. -Lisa

Hi Heidi, Thanks for responding!!! No problem - it's so strange that "ask and ye shall receive" thing....(or just know what you're looking for and it will materialize) - a few days after I messaged you, a friend of mine and I were talking about Kayleigh's adoption, birth-family, etc - I mentioned to her that Kayleigh was Jewish and my desire (and guilt about not really doing anything) to expose her to her Jewish heritage, etc - she said "Well, I have to introduce you to my friend who is coming in for a visit for a few days - she and I have been friends for a long time, she's very open and I'm sure will answer any questions you have (oh yes, and she's Jewish)" Anyway, we ran into each other while dropping our kids off at preschool and she introduced us and I just went right in with all my questions and she was just wonderful - she was raised Reform but has found that she leans more toward Conservative and attends a Conservative synagogue now. Just a wealth of info - I just wish she lived here - she lives in Chicago but thank goodness for email. That day, we spent about 3 hours getting a Judaism 101 lesson! Anyway, one of my concerns I raised to her was that I wish I would have known about the Jewish naming traditions when we adopted Kayleigh because I would have liked to have honored that. She told me it's never too late to get a Hebrew name - and suggested the same thing - perhaps we could have a Rabbi do that. I do plan to do that but am wanting to wait a few more years - I have this fantasy that someday, Kayleigh's birthmother will contact us or Abrazo and we'll be one of those happy reunion stories that Elizabeth posts about on here. Anyway, I would just love for her to give Kayleigh her Hebrew name - I would love to honor Kayleigh's birthfamily that way at some point in time - but, if that doesn't happen and Kayleigh begins asking about the name - at least we have a Plan B. What I explained to my new friend is I had tried in the past to explain to Kayleigh what little I knew of Jewish traditions (Hannukah, Passover, etc) but it just didn't feel authentic to me because I wasn't raised celebrating those times and it just didn't feel like it was coming from my heart - it was more of an education and I want Kayleigh to be exposed to it in a very authentic way - I think that will help her feel the connection more - which is why what I really wanted to do was to get more involved in the Jewish community (playgroups, preschool, community center, etc) so she could get it from people who it's been passed to from generation to generation - and it is just second nature. Anyway, I've rambled enough - no need to write me a long email (unless you just can't sleep sometime), I stumbled into another person who has been answering all my questions (she told me that if we're not well received by a Synagogue or group of people, to move on to another because she thinks most anyone would be thrilled we're trying to keep Kayleigh in touch with her Jewish roots - same as what I feel which is not everyone can say they were born Jewish and for those who are, it's important to keep knowledge alive and passed on to future generations. -Lisa

And just to put another spin on this Elizabeth - are there any non-Jewish parents who have adopted a child of Jewish heritage? Our daughter Kayleigh is Jewish (her birthmother and birthmother's family are Jewish) and I am very interested in helping her appreciate her connection to her Jewish community although I've needed a little help and guidance along the way (one of my biggest fears was how Kayleigh would be received by the Jewish community since we're not Jewish). However, I was fortunate to have recently met a new friend who is Jewish (was Reform but now is Conservative) through a friend and have been emailing her (she lives in Chicago) and talking with her about ways I can better introduce & expose Kayleigh to her birth heritage and culture (one idea she had was to contact our local Synagogue to see if they can find a family who will let us participate in Seder with them next year at Passover). Anyway, I'm learning as I go and just trying to do the best I can to offer Kayleigh the opportunity to understand her roots - I feel its an honor to be born Jewish - not many people can say they were and my hope is for her to realize that and feel some sort of connection. Anyway, just thought I'd see if there are any other parents like us, not Jewish but the proud parents of a child of Jewish heritage? I'm a total sponge on this topic - this will certainly be one I follow closely! The Jewish community is quite small in my town (if it even exists) but my understanding is there is a large community in Richardson, TX which isn't too far. -Lisa

Just wanted to post a link here from Adoptive Families Magazine (in case anyone has found this website and is just starting to research Domestic Adoption - this is a great overview and it also has some links to online articles from their magazine as well as book recommendations. Domestic Adoption Overview - Adoptive Families Magazine Lisa

Yet another plug for my favorite magazine in the world! Adoptive Families magazine has a section called Help With Adoption Expenses with articles and links and general information about just that - trying to cover adoption expenses. There's even tips from AF Readers on how they did it. If you're exploring your options on how to afford it, check out this link Help With Adoption Expenses - Adoptive Families Magazine Website -Lisa

Claudia, check out this topic Abrazo's Designated Adoption Program under Parents-In-Waiting as a bit of starter info on the Designated program but yes, your best bet would be to give them a call and get more info. -Lisa

Hi Debra, She's been posting!!!! (Kalin), Check out All About You! under "Abrazo Kids Clubhouse" Her screen name is KALINSMITH so you can find her under members that way too! Hi Kalin!!! Welcome to the forum!!! Lisa

Found this great piece of information from Elizabeth in another unrelated thread of posts and thought I'd put it here too.... -Lisa

Oh my, what wonderful placements today!!! Tricia - the story about Jonas finding you (again) is truly touching!!! What an extraordinary story! And Laurel and Casey - I'm sure you guys are just completely floating in disbelief at the moment - what wonderful posts to read today!!! -Lisa

Stephanie, I think our question was answered in another thread.....????? -Lisa

I've been wondering the same thing.....????????? Any news yet of future Orientation dates? -Lisa

Not to digress too much but Tiffany, it sounds like you and I have something in common - my sisters (same parents) are 15 and 12 years older than me....! I can't tell you how many times my mom and sisters will say to me, "remember that vacation we took to the beach that time?" and I'm like, "what year was it?" and they'll say, "1965" or something...hello! I was born in 1971! The vacation was before I was actually born! - they don't even realize there was a time when I wasn't actually around.... -Lisa

I just wanted to second that age thing....I love what Heidi said - follow your heart! I'm 35 and my husband is 46 and we have a 3 year old and are in the process of starting the process again to welcome our next blessing home.... My mom was 36 when I was born (which 35 years ago was "old" compared to other mothers) but I like to think that I've kept her young.....and now, when other 70+ grandmothers are attending high school and college graduations, my mom (and our daughter's grand-mother) is singing Dora The Explorer songs and knows who Elmo, The Wiggles, Blues Clues, etc etc are, what they wear, what they eat...she is giving piggy back rides (those are rare but somehow, Kayleigh manages to persuade Mimi for a piggy back ride every now and then) and she is pushing her on the swing set and she knows all about how to fix chicken nuggets and hot dogs....Anyway, she has a 3 yr old grand-daughter (her 7th grand-child - they range in age from 27 to 3) keeping her very young at heart. I think children have a way of doing that for us...and I think it's great! Other than a few other "late-bloomers", my husbands friends and colleagues around the same age are all seeing their kids off to college and are going through the "empty nest" thing....not us! Lance also finds himself humming Wiggles tunes rather than Jimi Hendrix and arrives home to be greeted with a squealing princess (all dressed up in her outfits and shoes) saying "Daddy's Home!!! Daddy's Home!!!" We love it this way - Sure, there will be birthmothers who prefer a younger parent and that's fine...that just means that wasn't the "right one"....my biggest concern is my weight - I'm overweight and I fret and fret over a birthmother being able to match with us because she would prefer a "healthier" appearing mom for her child....but, I decided not to let that stop me and we've sent in our paperwork and we'll see what happens.....but you never know until you try. And anyway, 40 is the new 30, right? Soooo many people these days are waiting awhile before starting families that at least now, you won't be the only 40 somethings with a newborn.....My husband and I say it feels like our lives just started when Kayleigh joined our lives - we are so much more ready now to be parents than we were before when it actually happened. Of course, I (and many others on here) are very partial to Abrazo - we just think they're the BEST place around - so....I say give 'em a call - they're very easy to talk to and very knowledgeable and honest and after all, it's just a phone call....no commitments so see what they say! -Lisa btw - welcome to the forum!!!

Okay, sooo not fair! What the heck is " " supposed to mean? I'm starting to like those Tots better because they share news!!! Not fair, not fair, not fair!!! (hee hee...no, I love everyone equally...but especially those who tell us when there's news!!!) We're family, right? Plllllllllllllllllllllllllllease update us...at least let us know if we need to stay up all night or should we check first thing in the morning or wait until Monday.....give us a bone...pleeeeeeeeease? -Lisa

I thought so...and I just looked up which Orientation you were in (LindsayandJay) and y'all were in the Bobbing For Squirrels Orientatin and Tricia was in the Bobbing for Squirrels Orientation and that's who the mysterious/cryptic posts have been from (her saying things are going GREAT and she's off to go shopping and she's really busy...hmmmmm and Noah saying he's ready for it to happen this week and Elizabeth saying she'll put in a little prayer and then ...well, okay, now I'm sure everyone knows I'm crazy for paying such close attention to this forum! This is what happens when you don't have a 3 year old at home to keep you busy! You're glued to this forum! Hmmmmm.....guess we'll just have to wait and see..... -Lisa P.S. TRICIA...WHAT IS GOING ON?

Okay, call me crazy but does anyone else have a "feeling" that something is about to happen soon? Just seems like there have been some mysterious & cryptic posts on the forum today..... -Lisa

I see a Golden Binkie in your future Ashley Wilder! (That'll give you something to do while you're waiting for Sir Tucker! I'm sure there's something on this forum that talks about Golden Binkies.....or check out some of the Abrazo Newsletters - Affinity - I'm just thinking with all your patience and waiting....I think I know what your Golden Binkie will be about!) I think we've just experienced a major "First" on this forum! The first PIW who is actually hoping for others to have placements before they do. -Lisa

Oh my gosh Sabrina - I wish so much I was there to enjoy a book on your deck with you!!! I can picture it now....we wouldn't get much reading done - we'd be talking all night! -Lisa

Thanks Jan - yes, I just spoke to him (and to Abrazo) and they both said the same thing - fine to use the same people although the letters of reference that he requires needs to be mailed and addressed to him, not to Abrazo. Anyway, thanks... Lisa