linlacor

Pictures! Pictures! Pictures!!! We want pictures!!!!! Congratulations you guys! We've all been thinking of you so much these past few days - looking forward to hearing an update when you're ready - can't wait to hear what your little fishie is called What a way to begin 2007! Hooray! Lisa

that is so sad, and so tragic....her life was cut so short what a sweet, positive letter she wrote and how touching for her child's parents to hear those words from her - I just get chills when I read it and know that she had no idea how that one letter would possibly be the last communication her child had from her - but how fortunate to have that. thank you for sharing her legacy with us and what a difficult phone call you guys must have had to make today. so many tragedies this holiday season... keeping the loved ones of all these special Abrazo folks in my thoughts and prayers. Lisa

For those of you with an interest in Madonna's adoption of David from Malawi - here is a very interesting article published in Adoptive Families magazine this month, February 2007, it is a condensed reprint version - the original version appearing in The Guardian as referenced by AF. I'm posting a link to both articles (note - the article was originally published 10/20/06 and there has certainly been a lot of water under that bridge since then) - but still, what I found interesting about this article was how it addressed the more human side to this story - the early part of David's life. Anyway, I haven't been following this closely but did come across this article and thought I'd post it. ADOPTIVE FAMILIES - About a Boy Everybody knows that Madonna adopted a boy from Malawi. Few know why his father said yes GUARDIAN - About a boy

For those who may be trying to learn more about open adoption and found this thread, check out this thread as well - it has great discussions from both birthparents and adoptive parents who are living breathing members of open adoption triads.... Frank Talk About Open Adoption -Lisa

I agree - every time I see a new post on this thread, I just get all giddy! And nothing against those of you who are so sweet and supportive and are trying to help us with baby chants and baby dust and prayers for babies but it is always sort of anti-climatic when I see no post from Stork Central.... I'd even settle for a subtle little hint of hers at this point - it has been quiet, quiet, quiet on this thread - which would be great if it meant that mothers weren't having to make adoption plans but not so great if it means that these mothers are making their adoption plans elsewhere...because we all know that Abrazo is the best!!! -Lisa

Hey Kristin, I have copied yours & Adam's exchange regarding fingerprints here. I'm not sure I'm much help either - I think it is more of an Abrazo question - we live in the state of Texas and had to have the electronic fingerprints done but as we were already "accepted" into Abrazo's program, they were the ones whose number we used to put on our form (I believe that operation number you were talking about - or whatever it was called but we had to have them give that number to us so our electronic results would come back to Abrazo (as well as DFPS) but again, Abrazo sent us all that info...which is why I think this is more of an Abrazo question... Best of luck (?) to you on that - the FBI fingerprint thing was definitely not one of the easiest things we had to do (the first time it was no big deal but the electronic thing was a bit of a mess - I posted about it, on here I think....very new process for them and there are still some kinks in the system they need to work out (they as in DFPS or whoever it is that's doing it...NOT Abrazo - they were great!) -Lisa Kristin, Please don't feel like you are 'barging in'. This is a forum and all are welcome. The only exclusivity is when you first register for an Abrazo forum account. We welcome all and are certainly glad you have found a place where you are comfortable asking questions. Unfortunately, I can't shed much light on the fingerprinting thing. We've only done it once (doing it again in the next week or two) and our licensed social worker is setting things up through a local agency (with results being sent to both them and to Abrazo I believe). Our Fingerprinting and Background checks are a package deal. Both are done at the same time here in Tenn. by TAPS (the contracting agency). There will be lots of "frustrating" steps during the adoption process, but just realize You WILL get through each one and more importantly You WILL have a little one in your near future I'll let the experts reply regarding their suggestions for your next course of action. -A

I just LOVE moments like that where you come into contact with such special people and what may seem like such a small little nothing to them just is a mountain of goodness for us. What angels they were indeed - and like you said, on a day when you needed them most! The world is just full of awesome and beautiful people - but also, it's people like YOU Laura who recognize and appreciate that sort of beauty and special-ness - and that makes you one of them, for others may have not stopped long enough to soak in that moment and because you did, you gained from that experience as well, and then - you went even further and shared that with all of us so we could be a part of it too....how kind and thoughtful of you. Thanks for taking the time to post sweet friend! I'm hoping that Baby Taylor arrives in your arms very soon - I know he/she will just make your heart explode with gratitude and happiness because that's just the kind of person you are Not long now, not long at all. Lisa

Okay, I feel stupid - what does Shabbot mean??? I know this was a really cute moment (because Gabe is full of those) but I need to understand the reference better Also, just wanted to give a thumbs up to the 2 Hanukah movies I ordered - Kayleigh has watched them pretty much non-stop since they arrived on Friday. The Planet Matzoh Ball one is really funny - probably her favorite - it has these muppet type characters in it and they sing these really catchy tunes ("What do you do with a Menorah? What does a Menorah do?" and "Spinderella, Spinderella")...warning - if you are the type of person who has a hard time getting kid songs out of your head once you hear them - then be sure to leave the room. Also, it's really funny (Kayleigh loves this part) when they're trying to figure out what a Menorah is for and they do all sorts of silly things with it - they ask if it's a Hot dog holder and put hot dogs in it, they ask if it's a crayon holder and put crayons in it, all sorts of silly stuff - Kayleigh was cracking up and talking to the TV going - "No Silly! You put candles in it!" I still haven't called the temple yet - not sure that I'll get that done in time for Hanukah this year - the first night of Hanukah this year is December 16th so I think I will try to go through the 8 nights of Hanukah with Kayleigh this year solo, just winging it. Heidi (or anyone else for that matter), any ideas on what to do each night? Do we just light the candle and talk about the significance of Hanukah (I'm getting really good with the story now after watching those shows so much) It sounds like the last night is the big night (is that when you have a Hanukah party?) I may even try to make Potato Latkes this year - doubt Kayleigh would eat them but nothing new there because she really doesn't eat much of anything (food/meals are such a chore for her). Okay, so anyway - any tips on what to do (low key since I obviously won't be hosting a Hanukah party at my house this year and Heidi - I just may take you up on that offer if you're having one next year - since Hanukah is so early in December, I may be able to squeeze in a trip to visit my sister and would LOVE to come see you guys during Hanukah so Kayleigh could really see what it's all about!!! Gosh - how I wish I could be there this year!!!) would be appreciated - I feel like such a fish out of water!!! (ha ha - what a funny reference to my Orientation group name.....) Okay - it's bathtime for the priness now - off I go! Lisa Hey - silly question - when/how do you use the phrase "Mazel Tov" (or did I spell it right?)

Guess what, guess what, guess what????? I was just doing the annual calendar I do for Lance's mom on Shutterfly (where you customize it with pics) and I previewed it and it now allows you to add an event on the dates (i.e. birthdays, anniversaries, etc) and I added Kayleigh's birthday (which is December 5th) and guess what it says on that day in 2007? Hannukah begins! Coincidence? I think not! It's a sign!!! Your crazy forum friend, Lisa

I'm trying to find that Rugrats special but no luck so far. I'm actually getting pretty frustrated by the lack of children's holiday/Hannukah DVD's available - do Jewish people not let their kids watch TV or something ? This is way harder than I expected! I've been googling but hardly come up with anything. That site that Lauren bought Kayleigh's menorah and other gifts from has a section of DVDs, and they even have a Rugrats Hannukah movie...but only in VHS! There is one called Channukah & Passover at Bubbe's - it sort of looks like Sesame Street characters - I think I'll order that one and see how it is. There's also one called Channukah on Planet Matza Ball - this looks interesting - it says it's a PBS production (we're big fans of PBS - we don't have cable so that's where Kayleigh gets her kid show fix from TV) There are a couple others but I think I'll go with those 2. What I don't get is that there are 100 million Christmas DVDs available (believe me, there is! We own about half of them) and every character known to every child has his/her own Christmas DVD...but no Jewish DVDs??? What's up with that? Argh! Lisa

Hey Heidi, the packing list was included with the menorah and it is from Judiasm.com and the item number is 89424 I want to look up and see if they carry any children's shows for Hannukah. Kayleigh has a ton of Christmas shows/movies but the only Hannukah show I know of is 8 Crazy Nights (an Adam Sandler movie) and it's not exactly appropriate for children If you know of any you can recommend, (or anyone else can)...please let me know! Thanks, Lisa

Okay, I've posted the pics in our gallery!!! Cornish Photo Gallery

Cool, thanks Lauren!!! I just picked up Kayleigh from preschool and I told her she has a Menorah at home that she gets to paint from our friend Lauren - she was so excited!!! My mom was with us and she wanted to go to Target first and Kayleigh was so bummed, she wanted to go home and get to painting...anyway, while we were at Target, we were looking at Christmas decorations and she wanted to get a star for the top of our tree and I let her pick one out and she said, "We'll have a Hannukah Christmas tree" How funny is that? Well, speaking of Menorahs...if I don't get hers set up to paint, she's going to have a nervous breakdown (I moved my computer downstairs so it's much more convenient to just log on now which I did as soon as I walked in the door...but I must now get the car unloaded and get her stuff set up). Thanks again!!! Lisa

I just have to brag on my little one So, for those who are reading this and don't know - Kayleigh's maternal birthfamily are Jewish. This year (she turns 4 in about a week), I have been making more of an effort to introduce her to Jewish holidays and their significance (baby steps...mostly because I did not grow up Jewish (so I'm learning as I go), nor have I ever had a friend or acquaintence who was Jewish (that is until little Kayleigh came along and I now have a few Jewish friends although none live nearby but still, I am hoping to change that if I'd ever get around to contacting this Temple I found not far from where we live...but I digress...that's another topic). So anyway, haven't talked a huge amount about it because I'm not really sure how to bring it up - other than when Kayleigh starts talking about Christmas, I've said, "Hey you know what? There's another holiday coming up that people who are Jewish celebrate and it's called Hannukah - and you know what else? Rachel and her family are all Jewish so I bet they celebrate Hannukah too...then I explain the little I know about Hannukah (the menorah, the story of the Macabees and the oil and how it lasted 8 days and that's why 8 candles are lit, etc etc etc) You know, with a preschooler, you just never know whether or not they're paying attention or not...Well, last night - the three of us were laying in bed reading books and Lance was reading this Christmas book to Kayleigh called the ABC's of Christmas - it had a letter on each page and a word associated with that letter - when we got to "H", before Lance could even read it - Kayleigh said "I know what starts with "H" - Hannukah (but it was so cute how she pronounced it - wish I would have had a recorder to hear her, she really struggled and stumbled over it" and then she said, "I want to have Hannukah too, we could have candles and a Menorah (and she stumbled over that word too but finally spit it out...without our help ) Both of us just looked at each other and were just smiling so much and it was such a moment!!! I was so excited that she actually did pay attention when we've talked about it - this felt like major progress and I'm so proud of her!!!! And then, today - a little package arrived (how's that for timing Lauren) and it was from Kayleigh's Jewish Auntie Lauren - it was a Paint-It-Yourself Menorah (which is Kayleigh's first Menorah - what an awesome touching gift - and it will be even more special because she'll be able to paint it herself so when she's older, not only will she know it was her first one but she decorated it too) and it was a set of Menorah candles (made in Israel!!! They're kosher (which I'm still not exactly sure what it means when something is kosher so if one of y'all can explain that to me too and its significance and how important it is to be kosher or not (doesn't it depend on how Jewish you are or something? my friend's friend (who was raised not Orthodox but is now attending an Orthodox temple and is kosher now) said something about some people who are Jewish aren't always kosher or are only kosher certain times of the year but Orthodox are always kosher??? Did I get that right?) And...this little piggy bank type thing called a Tzedakah Box (a ceramic charity box)....which is just perfect because Kayleigh is really into coins these days and has a piggy bank and this will be such a great opportunity to begin to explain to her the meaning of charity and having a giving heart and sharing....Lauren - these mean so much to us - thank you so much!!! I will post a pic of the menorah when Kayleigh gets it all painted...Thank you!!! This was just perfect timing with the discussion we had last night with her. Shalom all! Lisa

and, for what it's worth..these are the numbers i was given to contact where i tracked down our resuts (let's just say, it isn't exactly a streamlined process) i first contacted Identix via their 1 888 number, she referred me to DPS at 512-424-5079 and he was able to determine when they/he transmitted the results to DFPS...ideally, you need to give him a TCN# for him to look it up (I have no idea what that is or how you get one, I *think* Identix is supposed to give it to you). Anyway, he was able to locate it w/Lance's name. He then referred me to DFPS 512-99-6478 and I spoke to someone there who confirmed they had the results, just somehow hadn't sent them to Abrazo. Not sure if these will always be the appropriate numbers to contact...but they're the ones I was given and they worked for me, today (may save you a call to Identix who I find to be truly quite rude I would definitely start chasing it down if it's been more than a couple of weeks...my 2 cents. Lisa

Truer words haven't been spoken from my perspective... This was how I felt too when we closed the door on fertility treaments and trying to get pregnant. For me, that entire experience was just rotten, full of no fond memories, just sadness and hopelessness. Anyway, to me, it didn't matter what I had to go through on my adoption journey because I knew that in the end, it paled in comparison to how I felt going through in-vitro and also, I knew what the outcome would be so that made it all so much easier for me. This was definitely true when we adopted Kayleigh - we had such a smooth time that first time - no real twists or turns or ups or downs - we basically went to Orientation, got all our stuff done, and the first "official" match we had was Kayleigh, she was a BOG. And it happened so quickly and it seemed so effortlessly - I mean, don't get me wrong....the adoption experience, once it was put into action was full of all sorts of unexpected things but nothing I couldn't handle and I had my baby, so nothing bothered me...I felt I could handle anything. This time, it's been a little more unpredictable and I'll be honest, I really didn't anticipate that we'd be waiting quite this long, and I didn't anticipate that we'd go through 3 matches, 2 birthparent phone calls where we weren't "chosen", 1 birthparent call where we were sort-of chosen at the last minute but within a day, she decided to continue the private adoption she was involved with, 2 or 3 (or more?) birthparent calls where we opted not to move forward...anyway, suffice it to say, this experience has definitely been more emotional and a true test of whether or not we really want to continue building our family. I mentioned in a previous post that I had a fleeting recent thought that maybe, we needed to re-visit our decision to stop infertility treatments. This came up because of exactly what you said Mary Helen - when you decide that the alternative feels better than what you're currently going through, you know it's time to stop. When I was having a really bad day or week, whichever it was - I had to determine if maybe, what I went through with the infertility was actually not as painful and emotional than what the future may hold for us with our 2nd adoption journey. I mentioned somewhere on the forum that after what we've experienced so far, one of the biggest fears I have currently is a fear of the unknown...how many more disrupted matches will we have before it's the right one? and so on. Lance wouldn't even discuss infertility treatments again - that door is completely closed for him (and he was the one who initially had a harder time closing it than I did). His thoughts are if we are going to have a second child, then it is going to be through adoption...period. So, my thought was fleeting and within a couple of days, I wondered where on earth that came from and moved on, got back on track with preparing myself mentally for what's to come and now, I just try to handle it all the best I know how to. And, no more doubts (at this time) about whether it's all worth it in the end...whether we really do need another child in our family (the answer is yes). I know that if we don't pursue this path, this will haunt me forever...that I gave up on that person who was meant to be my other daughter - I'll constantly wonder about her and who her parents are and what she was like...she is a very real person to me, already - so I know I must be patient and just let her find me when she's ready. Elizabeth - I think what you'll find ironic is that I learned that as a birthmother - just edit all that content to reflect a birthmother's perspective and you'll understand how I came to terms with my decision to place. Basically, I believed, in my heart that adoption was my ONLY option (whether it was realistically or not) and that what I felt and went through, the pain, the emotion...was just part of what I had to go through...just part of life. It works both ways - for someone losing a child through adoption and for someone losing a child through infertility)

Yay!!! I just found out from Abrazo that my fingerprint/background clearance has come back!! Lance's haven't yet but maybe it will take longer for him since he's a Naturalized Citizen (he wasn't born here) - although, with all the screening he went through to become a US citizen, those FBI folks oughta recognize that name whenever they see it - he's been fingerprinted so many times over the past few years, we've lost count Anyway, at least I know that mine are back and those fingerprints aren't just floating around somewhere! (Thanks EJ for letting me know ) -Lisa

Awwww...thanks for the note Stephanie!!! That's good enough to cheer me up a bit - I'll take that! Thanks again, Lisa

Lauren, I just knew when you and I talked and when you shared with our group your infertility journey that you guys weren't ready to shut that door. I so hoped that you both would realize it and I felt such relief when you shared that you guys had decided not to pursue adoption at this time. I think there is a reason you were called back to the fertility treatments again, and whether or not they result in a child, you need to do this, in order to move forward with your plans to have a family (in my opinion). I am so, so, so happy to have met you on this forum and in our Orientation Group and I am feel so blessed that you are still with us all on our journeys and we are with you on yours. I will jump for joy when I receive the news that you are a mother (or are on your way to becoming a mother) and whether your child shares a biological connection with you or not, I know you will be the absolute best, most loving, most accepting mom in the world! That's just the kind of person you are. I think adoption has so many ups and downs and twists and turns and unknowns (and the list just goes on and on and on) that if you have not closed the door to infertility treatments, then those highs and lows can just be too much to bear and can cause too many doubts and what-ifs. I think to be able to embrace adoption as one needs to do in order to go through whatever obstacles come up on the journey, one needs to feel in their hearts that this is just part of the path to becoming parents - it is the only path, so you just learn to take each low with grace and celebrate each high - and you get really comfortable with those twists and turns. I think, if someone hasn't reached that point (where they feel they may have some unfinished business with the fertility doctors), then that adoption journey can be much rougher than it is for someone who knows this is just what they have to endure in order to become parents (because the alternative would mean to remain childless). So anyway, I am rooting you on and I truly hope you and Chuck are successful in your IVF attempt(s) and that if you aren't, you are blessed with an amazing doctor who can help guide you (whether that be through more aggressive treatments (although IVF (which is what we did) is about as aggressive as it gets) or through other alternatives (surrogate, donor whatever's) or back to Abrazo to meet the child who wasn't ready for you yet when you graduated from our Orientation in September. We did IVF twice - the first time, with a doctor here in Texas - we were never guided or helped or consulted with - the receptionist told us we weren't pregnant over the phone and no follow-up appointment was ever recommended or made. It definitely felt to us that the door was still open (well, more to Lance than me - the entire experience was enough to turn me off mother-hood for the next 10 years!). When we arrived in Seattle, we located another specialist and did another IVF - this time, we had been led to an amazing doctor (she was a female) who was so compassionate and caring and when we learned we weren't pregnant (which was through a very sympathetic and kind nurse), we were asked to schedule a follow-up appointment to speak with the doctor. We went through everything with her and she recommended to us at that time that we may want to consider another means of building our family - that we just weren't good candidates for IVF because I didn't respond well (I "only" made 14 eggs, of which, only 7 made it past 24 hours and of those, only 3 fertilized and those that did, were not very good quality.) She is the one who recommended adoption to us and that just felt "right". It felt, at that time that we had gone as far as we could go and to continue would be a pointless and emotionally wrenching exercise. I am so grateful to her for giving us the closure we needed to move forward with adoption with the type of mind-set we had - I honestly have never (other than very recently & very fleeting but I think that was just me realizing that I'm now 35 and I'm no longer in that "healthy, abundant" egg age anymore) wondered if we should have tried harder or more with infertility treatments. Anyway, my friend - I am so happy to hear you're going to give it another shot and I am wishing you the best possible outcome! Here's some baby dust coming your way Lisa

yay!!!!!!! i'm so excited!!!! i'll be ordering the xxl long sleeve shirt as soon as they're listed on the site, because that's the only thing is w/abrazo...a special delivery could very well beat the post office lisa

i saw these and sooooooooo wanted to order one, but the biggest size they do is a large so i may just have to get my own done...i would love to be sporting one of these next time i'm shopping at Babies R Us lisa

hi there!!! welcome! welcome!! so happy to have you here, on the forum and soon as an official abrazo piw (Parent in waiting) You're among friends here and i can't wait to follow your journey! lisa

You're welcome Jean & Jill....it had been on my mind and I had meant to post sooner but just hadn't found the time to sit down and collect my thoughts (and after re-reading it, I probably could have done a better job but oh well, if I wait to do something until I think it's perfect, I find it never gets done...) Another thing that struck me during the interview was something Jessica said in response to Oprah - I think Oprah asked her what she'd like to say to everyone or something like that, she said several things (which I don't really remember, other than I thought to myself - "Gosh, here's your chance...say something profound, and I didn't feel she did but she was probably put on the spot and hadn't prepared for that question (although that question is a no-brainer - what interviewer wouldn't ask that???) Anyway, what she DID say that really stuck with me was something like how she can understand how people look at her and say what they say and how they can't believe she did such a horrific thing and what kind of person is she to do something like that? She said that had this not happened to her, she would be one of those people saying that too, to whomever it was sitting in the chair she was in. I am glad she said that - so often, people think "Oh, I could never do that" and you know, I also don't think I could ever do that either but at the same time, I do not feel I have a right to judge her because I was not standing in her shoes, in her situation at the time that she was. And something I thought of later, when I re-read the part about my mom is there was a time when my mom did have her head in the sand when she shouldn't have...but boy, did she ever make it up to me when I was pregnant. When I was about 14 years old (probably the worst years of my entire life was when I was 12 - 14), I was very unhappy, to the point where I just felt sad and hopeless all the time - I don't know exactly why but at the time, it made sense to me, I would take a cigarette and burn my arm until I couldn't leave the cigarette there any longer - I wanted to feel the physical pain because it would somehow shut off the emotional pain, if only temporarily, but it was better than nothing. There was a lot going on in our lives at that time, my mom had a boyfriend who was a horrible person and she was so co-dependent on him, she became someone I don't even know - a completely different person than the mom I had before him and the mom I have now - anyway, all her time and energy was put into him (which went completely unappreciated by him) and when she wasn't with him, she was working because at that time, she worked 2 jobs. I guess she just didn't want to have to deal with whatever was going on with me because to do that, would mean taking a look at her life and realizing that she needed to make some changes and down deep, she didn't want to make those changes - she had even said, at one time when my sister (one of the many times my sister went round and round with her) told her she needed to stop paying so much attention to her boyfriend and start paying more attention to her child that needed her mom (me, not my sister because my sister was nearly 30 at the time and had her own family and kids) - my mom's response was that she had already raised 2 kids, she was tired of being a mother all the time and wanted and needed time for herself and this made her happy)...anyway, she (my mom) asked me about the marks on my arm and I told her they were mosquito bites - she said, "Oh, okay" and we never had the conversation again. My sister came over one day and sat me down, in front of my mom and asked the same question, "What are those marks on your arm?" I told her mosquito bites, and my mom even took up for me - she insisted to my sister that they were mosquito bites, just like Lisa said because Lisa wouldn't lie about that....my sister went ballistic and told my mom to wake up! Those aren't mosquito bites - she said she knew what mosquito bites looked like and they didn't look like the marks all over my arm - she finally got me to admit that I had been burning myself and my mom seemed genuinely shocked. I think she was - I think in her heart, she wanted to believe they were mosquito bites because it was easier to do that than to face the reality if they weren't. This was the first time I went to live with my sister and her family (I lived with them twice, this time only lasted a few months, the second time, when I was 15 lasted 2 years, then I moved in with my dad and step-mom and that lasted a year, then I got pregnant and by the time I delivered, my mom had broken up with her boyfriend and was "ready to be a mom" again and my life gradually improved. But anyway, I know it took a lot of courage for her to face something she didn't want to face (when she suspected I was pregnant) and I'm not sure why she was able to at that time but not the times before that but probably the time when I needed her to be there the most, she was. -Lisa

Yes, absolutely Martha...that is definitely a message I was hoping would ring out through my post. Noone is immune to this, this type of act is not reserved for murderers/evil people, i think there is something very different going on here. And I don't know the answer as to how you ensure that line of communication is open, because as i said, my mom and i talked very freely w/one another and i did know my mom loved me more than anything, no matter what, i was fearful of disappointing her and her expectations she had for me and i was fearful of getting in trouble and being lectured to. I know i certainly never want to send a message to kayleigh that teenage sex is okay, but i also want her to feel comfortable talking to me if that is something that happens.....oh brother, i'm glad that's a few years off before i need to worry about it...yikes! i do know, what i learned from my experience and how my mom handled it is i will not keep my head in the sand and kayleigh will probably complain that i invade her privacy because as a mother, i will be all in her business and will do more than just ask questions and accept her answers.....i don't know how yet, but i am going to make sure i am very, very involved....even if it makes her mad, it's my responsibility as her mother. lisa

I am not sure if anyone watched Oprah last week when she interviewed Jessica Coleman, a girl who is now 21 and serving 6 years in a maximum security prison because at the age of 15, she delivered a baby boy at home, alone in the bathroom after hiding her pregnancy and tragically, this little guy just never had a chance - she hid his body in a duffle bag in her closet until her boyfriend arrived (the next day I believe) and dumped the duffle bag in a local quarry (the bag was found a few months later by divers - however, Jessica lived 6 years with her secret (just she and her then-boyfriend knew) until one day, it was too much for her and she confided in her current boyfriend at a public place, someone overheard and placed a call to the police and Jessica subsequently confessed to what she did to her son. Jessica Coleman (link to story on Oprah's site) Whew! I wasn't sure whether or not I could actually watch this program - it hits very close to home with me on many levels. I Tivo'd it and started it one day then couldn't finish it, then when Lance was home, we watched it together and I made it through the program. I personally don't think anyone in that situation will actually find themselves reading the forum or this thread (nor am I entirely confident that the Safehaven laws will save children who otherwise would have been disposed of (for lack of a better word) by their mothers) and the reason I think that is because I believe these girls are in such denial about their pregnancy, to seek help through browsing the internet for adoption information or by learning about safe places they can turn to once they deliver would mean them confronting something so terrifying to them that their very existence in this world is at risk. I hope I'm not misunderstood, I am not in support of this type of thing, although at a deep level, I can relate/understand (I'm not sure either of those are the words I'm looking for) to the mindset someone may have in order to go through with ending the life of their child, after they are born. I don't know that they even allow themself to consider that the baby is real and is a human being, the denial is so great, it overtakes any logic or rational behavior - this is why I think "good girls" (as Jessica was described) are at a greater risk for this than a drug addict or "girl with a reputation" (one of the things the investigator commented on when he first met Jessica was how different she was from who he expected would be the baby's mother (because the community had known about this child for the 6 years that Jessica lived with her secret and had come up with their own conclusions of what kind of monster could do this to an innocent child). I looked at Lance and said I totally disagree with him (the investigator), I think it's those girls who are trying desperately to please their parents and maintain a certain image at home and at school who could convince themselves that if they can just get rid of the baby, it will all just go away and their lives will continue as usual - they don't have to confront their parents and risk ridicule or disappointment. When I suspected I was pregnant, before anyone knew, I was in so much denial - I just couldn't possibly allow myself to acknowledge &/or accept that my life was about to change and that my parents (mostly my mom because my dad and I didn't have a close relationship) would feel betrayed by me and angry with me and would say things to me that I was already saying to myself and I didn't want to have to hear from them. I just couldn't accept that "this" had happened to me. I honestly felt that death (my own) would be better than having to confront my mom about my problem - I prayed to God every day that the reason my period didn't come was because I had some sort of cancer - that seemed easier to deal with than being pregnant. I even would move heavy furniture around hoping that the pregnancy would just go away (not realizing that had I miscarried, my parents surely would have found out ). I don't know how long I would have or could have kept my pregnancy a secret but I know that I could never, ever tell my mom - and my mom and I had a very, very close and personal relationship - we talked about everything, we had gone through so much together - but that, I just couldn't tell her that I had been sexually active and that I thought I was pregnant....and I just can't emphasize enough how close we were...anyway, had it not been for my mom's persistence...I don't know what would have happened. I gained 80 pounds when I was pregnant so I hardly believe that I would have been able to hide my pregnancy forever but I just couldn't tell her. I had gone to visit my mom that summer in July (because I was living with my dad - I got pregnant in May 1988) and after 2 or 3 weeks, my mom began asking me if I needed her to buy me any female products (for my "monthly visitor") and I kept saying no, I didn't need any. After 2 weeks of me saying I didn't need any, she began asking me if I was pregnant. I emphatically said "NO! Because to be pregnant meant that I had been sexually active and I certainly wasn't sexually active so no, Mom...there's no way I'm pregnant." It didn't matter to her, she just kept bugging me, day after day - every evening - she'd start bugging me about whether or not I was pregnant - and I almost even told her that yes, I did need female products and I was going to put the empty wrappers in the trash can so she'd quit asking me but I also knew that doing that would only prolong it and I guess I just wanted her to know but I didn't want to have to tell her or admit it. Finally, one night - she went through it again with me and this time she told me, "Lisa, this is your last chance to tell me if there's any way you could be pregnant because tomorrow, I'm taking you to the doctor and he's going to find out and we'll know if you are". I seized the opportunity to tell her and sure enough, she took me to the doctor and I was pregnant. And once she knew, I suddenly realized that I was still alive and my life had not ended and she was not as angry or as disappointed as I thought she would be - she never even started lecturing me on how she just knew something like this was going to happen - she never said that...she just told me that it was okay and we'd get through it, just like we'd gotten through everything else. I am not blaming Jessica's mother or the mother of the other girl that Elizabeth posted about because the responsibility clearly (in my opinion) lies with these girls who did the unthinkable - but I will say that I think these mothers (as well as Kayleigh's birth-grand-mother who also never knew that her 17 year old daughter was pregnant even though she saw her every day) must have been in as much denial as their daughters - they must have been just as terrified of the reality of the situation as their daughters were because they did not pursue the truth - they may have suspected it but because they did not want to know or think that their daughter could possibly be pregnant, because the truth was so unimaginable for them and painful for them - they kept their blinders on and just believed that everything was normal, when there must have been opportunities to realize that possibly, it wasn't. I'm not saying that these people ever imagined or expected their child to do this, but I am just so grateful to my mom for being so brave and for pushing me and pushing me, to the point of me being so frustrated with her and angry at her for not believing me (because a part of me also didn't believe) and for being brave enough to seek the truth and follow her mother's intuition, even though she must have been so scared of what the future held. So anyway, those are my thoughts on this - if any of you have the opportunity to watch this or see it as a re-run, I would recommend viewing this because if you're ever wondering what a scared expectant mother goes through (not all, but some) emotionally when trying to confront the truth, this will give you a glimpse. I totally think Jessica is still wrestling with denial based on her reactions and responses to some of the questions Oprah asked her. To me, she may have remorse, but there also still seemed to be a part of her that is still choosing to not believe this ever happened to her (because the truth is just far too painful to confront and accept). -Lisa